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Tom Allensworth

How damaging is piracy?

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<>First, Mike...this is a Tea Party. Its "hangar chat" at a site dedicated to an entertainment product. That's pretty much a tea party.Secondly, I don't see how you can assert that moral relativism is "wrong". I'd agree that it "exists". I can accept you wish it didn't exist. (of course in that case you'd hope the folks that change are the "other" guys..right?). But it can't be wrong, it simply "is".

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Not at all, Ron.no hijack here...the relavancy I bring to the thread is that claiming damage from piracy when selling to countries that don't agree the the ownership of ip is self serving. If you don't want your product to be pirated, don't sell it to countries that differ from your definition. If you use the web as your distribution and cannot control that boundary, then you must consider the piracy as a cost of sales.You are treating this thread like you were elected to teach morality to the unknowing.Do you believe that readers are trying to decide whether or not to pirate and what you or I say will impact that decision?lol....

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Guest zzmikezz

Bob,I wasn't suggesting that moral relativism is an inappropriate topic for this forum. In fact, it is at the very heart of what's at stake here.Okay. I shouldn

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Bob, you've missed the point once again...Laws are in place to prevent or mitigate acts of theft. Effective law enforcement is hampered by the large numbers of thieves and the huge cost of enforcement.Thieves make individual choices to practice theft. It is less harmful to societies when thieves do an about face and choose to NOT continue the practice.While I have no illusions as to how effective the appeal will be to those who enjoy being dishonest, I have no reservations whatsoever in making the appeal. If one casual thief sees the appeal and makes a decision to no longer practice theft then that is one less who will do harm to others.Finally, we've long known the impact that theft as a cost of doing business has on business owners and customers alike. Do you really think the high prices you pay as a consumer are caused by greed of the retailer? Are you so naive as to think that your costs for goods and services do not include an offset for the costs of theft by business owners?The point of the thread is to highlite the damage done to business AND consumers, not retailers only.


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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Guest zzmikezz

I want to add something, Bob ...When I said I was talking to the fence sitters, in part I had in mind the kids who read this and other forums. Maybe some of them weren

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Guest zzmikezz

Right. I'm glad that we were able to discuss this reasonably dispassionately.Later,

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Hi Ron,<>If you say so...certainly a pointless thread if you are correct, as this reality is part of the permenant fabric of markets since time began.I enjoyed discussing more interesting concepts with Mike and Bryan. Its just been tug of war with you but that happens sometimes.Well...perhaps that's enough of Tom's bandwidth invested between us, what do you say? You can have the last post...and best to you.Cheers,Bob

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Sorry Bob, can't agree with your assessment of the threads value.The thread has value in that some may have gained insight into the reasons for the current state of software theft while others may have been exposed to the reasons for higher consumer prices throughout the world. Still others may actually give thought to their own behaviour and the effects on their friends and family.It has been interesting in that I now have a clearer understanding of your motives for posting. I must say that a tug of war exists whenever people post an argument and then use evasion to avoid answering direct questions.Bob, your hijack of the thread does indeed need to be closed out. Finally, the thread was not yours when it opened and it is not yours to close.


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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First of all, let me state loud and clear that I am against free use of works which are copyright in most cases, with some exceptions (free-use comes to mind). That said, anyone who thinks they have this figured out with anything more than basic DRM is fooling themselves."Digital Rights Management" (DRM). Sounds fair, just, and plain ole' good sense. And it is. Problem is, the digital realm has turned things upside down. On its collective head.Facts are current DRM initiatives hurt only the honest consumer. You may argue with me, but I'll just take you to many sites which host a multitude of "cracks". That fact by itself means that current DRM affects the honest consumer, and the honest consumer alone.We all have to step back from the problem, and take a new view-point. Don't believe me? Look at You-Tube. Copyright is infringed all the time on that site. How do you deal with it? It needs a new model, a breakthroughWe can rail at the machine, pee in the wind, talk about this from both sides of the coin all we want, but in the end it's a new world and a new way, and if you want to survive (and make a profit...capitalism is the wheels of commerce) you'll have to change.My 2 cents on this lofty premise...btPS...if you don't think this issue is complex, would someone show me in the Microsoft FS-any version where it states that "...scenes from the Microsoft Simulator Software may be reproduced for unlimited view by unlimited parties, in total, and in an excerpt"I'm not a lawyer, but that type of language is required to protect someone who uses FS-any version to make movies. Microsoft never envisioned such a thing. It is here now and delves directly into the core arguments around DRM and the digital world.Until this is settled clearly and by case law, all of you movie makers out there should have a sense of caution about what you do with your works. There are no easy answers.

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"How do you deal with it? It needs a new model, a breakthrough"...............................................................Do you have an outline? Would it be effective and user friendly?


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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Ron...with all due respect, I would much rather that someone as estemed as you (software dude and all) come up with the recipe.Ball's in your court.Cheers,bt

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>Ron...with all due respect, I would much rather that someone>as estemed as you (software dude and all) come up with the>recipe.>>Ball's in your court.>>Cheers,>>bt>Ha Ha, I'm afraid it's above my paygrade:-) There a quite a few good ideas already in place but they lack enforcement due to restrictions on time, money, and personel.:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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