new FSedit

[Guest odog]

whats the verdict? Want to start a pool on when the 'real' SDKs will appear? I'll set the over/under at 1 month.joe

[Guest flightmike1]

A rip-off of the FS2002 FSEdit..lol...when will they ever fix bugs. Better off to use something else. Wonder when the next SDKs will be out.

[Guest Douglas K]

>A rip-off of the FS2002 FSEdit..lol...when will they ever fix bugs. Better off to use something else.:) So yes Michael, you're better off using something else.Just waiting for the Panels SDK, any day now, the check is in the mail, whatever.

[Guest Ron Freimuth]

>>A rip-off of the FS2002 FSEdit..lol...when will they ever>fix bugs. Better off to use something else.< >>>I couldn't agree more.>>I wanted to try it because I was curious to see if the FS9>Aircraft Container SDK information regarding wing incidence>was correct. In the Aircraft Container SDK document, MS>implies that wing AOI can be set with FSEdit, and that>afterwards it can be changed by editing it directly in the>aircraft.cfg file. If FSEdit now accounts for Incidence and Twist I expect it only shifts the 'new' CL vs AoA table sideways. At least that lets one set the two values, but I doubt there is much, if any, advantage over setting them both to zero. Or, making Incidence = - Twist/2. Which effectively cancels their effects. I suspect FSEdit in part, uses 'Max Gross Weight' to set the Lift Curve at AoA =0 in order to have a nominal pitch at maximum weight. Though, it might even use the 'Airframe Type' to set a typical cruise pitch a jet transport vs a SEL. MS won't say, and even if FSEdit worked 'very well', we still wouldn't know what all affected how it set the lift table without a lot of experiments. I may want to leave Incidence or Twist set near what I had for an FS2K2 AC but compatable with FS9. So, I change Incidence or Twist so Incidence - Twist/2 = 0. That typically only requires changing one or the other a limited amount. I then have to shift TBL 404 to account for any change in "Incidence - Twist/2". If the REC 1101 "CL at min induced drag" (formula in Aired.ini Info) was set correctly for the FS2K2 settings it should be the same after the above changes. But, one should check! With the above changes, CL vs body AoA stays the same as it was in FS2K2. Induced Drag does also. The FS9 aircraft.cfg and AIR files should work the same in FS2K2. Though, the new Yaw Damper, Autopilot and a few other lines might allow improved performance in a few ways in FS9 than in FS2K2.>.............>And the Cl vs AOA lift table generated by FSEdit is still very>badly done, parts of it look like they were drawn by a small>child, with the lift slope in the post stall region being>nearly horizontal! I tried the new FS9 FSEdit on a jet transport I developed for FS2K2 since I wanted to see what it did. Of course, I backed up aircraft.cfg and the AIR files first. I found that the jet transport wasn't that bad (relative to what it might have been). I didn't have to set Trim way off zero. The FS2K2 FSEdit didn't set Cmo correctly and so pitch trim was way off. Pitch damping for this jet was much lower than I'd seen in the past. Only two times the real value. ;) But, not that much higher than I had to set to get acceptable ALT hold with my hand crafted AIR file. Roll damping was too high, compensated by high Aileron Moment. The end result is that Roll Rate was just about right. But, roll was way too stiff. The new FSEdit also set high Roll - Yaw couplings. Roughtly consistent with the excessive Roll Damping. Yaw Damping was at least 20X realistic, one wouldn't need the anemic (but slightly improved) Yaw Damper in FS9. Desktop pilots probably wouldn't mind the high Yaw Damping, they don't realize that real jet transports will likely go out of control if one kicks the the rudder with Yaw Damper Off. I'd set TBL 404 so CL peaked at 1.21. I found the new Lift Curve generated by FSEdit peaked at 1.10. Not that far off. Yes, the 'curve' zig zags, but I suspect there is a reason for that. Maybe some day I'll figure out if hand crafted Lift Curves might benefit from the hysteresis I always see in the FSEdit'ed AIR files. I noted that FSEdit set the correspinding Pitching Moment curve so it sloped up, then dropped to a lower slope at about 8 deg AoA. I have never seen real curves like that, but the end effect wasn't unusable. While the real value for the 'Cm vs AoA' cuvre for the AC is 1.5, the FSEdit curve had a slope of 1.77. Not that far off. Maybe if I changed the distance to the horiz_stab in aircraft.cfg it would be even closer. While the excessive Roll and Yaw dampings were not to my liking, the main problem in the end was that Cm_dt, trim moment, was set to -10.5 by FSEdit. Way too high. I'd set -1.8 and that was plenty. FSEdit still leaves Cd_lg set to 0.00. So, one gets no drag when dropping the gear. Though, this may be better than the excessive values I've often seen in AIR files. I didn't change my multiple [flaps..] blocks in aircraft.cfg. I had distributed Lift and Moment between two flaps blocks, setting the scalars to 0.5. FSEdit expected them to be 1.0, so CL_df was too low -- this was clear when flying the AC. If I hadn't set the tricky [flaps..] blocks Stall Speeds with flaps might have been reasonable. Though, I suspect, still on the high side. FSEdit doesn't change the numerous AIR file tables which affect flight at high AoA, changes in dynamic pressure, q, etc. Since I'd also made extensive modifications to them it's not fair to judge stall performance, etc in the FSEdit FD. Overall, those details shouldn't affect normal flight.--------------- So far, I have only tried FSEditing that one jet transport. Who knows how other AC might turn out. At least it appears the new FSEdit sets the new records so trim is near center in cruise (Though way too much varation was set). Now one could use FSEdit to generate the new AIR file records, then see if the new FD's have improved in any way. It's not hard to edit the new parameters, in fact, they are all in real values so no scale factors are needed. Just a shift in getting used to real, vs 'scaled values'. Something I still have to think about for many of the Stability Deriviatives. >With this table in the airfile I was able to stall the default>737-400 at FL300, and with full up elevator descend to below>10000 ft in a tailslide -still completely stalled- with the>nose of the aircraft exceeding a pitch angle of 50 degrees>nose up. Not exactly as real as it gets! :) Sounds like what that FSEdit 'Cm vs AoA' table shape would do. Rather than increase in slope at stall AoA, it drops in slope at half stall AoA and stays at that slope to at least 90 degrees AoA. Ron

[Chris Willis 8]

Hi, Just want to add one thing, I don't know if you already know about this, this editor works only with MsFS *.air files default or created from scratch with MsFs editor,Any *.air files created from others editor, the result will be completly off when you try to edit them with Msfs editor.You must start from scratch with the MsFs editor and never use others editor at the same time.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

[Guest Douglas K]

>If FSEdit now accounts for Incidence and Twist I expect it only shifts the 'new' CL vs AoA table sideways.I may want to leave Incidence or Twist set near what I had for an FS2K2 AC but compatible with FS9. So, I change Incidence or Twist so Incidence - Twist/2 = 0. That typically only requires changing one or the other a limited amount. I then have to shift TBL 404 to account for any change in "Incidence - Twist/2".With the above changes, CL vs body AoA stays the same as it was in FS2K2. Induced Drag does also. The FS9 aircraft.cfg and AIR files should work the same in FS2K2.I tried the new FS9 FSEdit on a jet transport I developed for FS2K2 since I wanted to see what it did. Of course, I backed up aircraft.cfg and the AIR files first.While the excessive Roll and Yaw dampings were not to my liking, the main problem in the end was that Cm_dt, trim moment, was set to -10.5 by FSEdit. Way too high. I'd set -1.8 and that was plenty.:) >Yes, the 'curve' zig zags, but I suspect there is a reason for that. Maybe some day I'll figure out if hand crafted Lift Curves might benefit from the hysteresis I always see in the FSEdit'ed AIR files.Sounds like what that FSEdit 'Cm vs AoA' table shape would do. Rather than increase in slope at stall AoA, it drops in slope at half stall AoA and stays at that slope to at least 90 degrees AoA.< I thought so too, and started down the Cm_Alpha trail. But after I removed Table 1546 (I assume that FS will then read the "legacy" Table 473), the tail slide stall characteristics remained. I then replaced the default Table 473 with a cunningly crafted table that I created and which works great in my other A/C, and it still wanted to do a post stall loop.It was only after I changed the lift slope to decrease more sharply after the stall AOA that the stupid thing began to act like an airplane, but a lot more work would be needed before you could say "that's pretty close to the real 737's stall characteristics". Hard to understand why MS would consider it desirable to have an A/C behave this way, especially after the lecture about "incorrect methods", "incorrect lift tables", and the ever popular "bogus incidence angle value".I'll admit that I like to stall airplanes (and not just simulated ones!), and that most people who use MSFS will just crank up the autopilot after takeoff and motor around the skies (and it ought to hold altitude like a champ with Cm_dt set to -18 or -20 by FSEdit). And I'll also admit that any stalls which occur during this motoring will probably be inadvertent ones after "Otto" has been turned off, but how hard is it for the MS team to get things right? Especially after pontificating about the "correct thing to do".So I'll stand by my previous statement that you're better off using something else.

[Guest simagic3d]

> You must start from scratch with the MsFs editor> and never use others editor at the same time.How does one create a new .air file from scratch? UsingFSedit from the FS9 SDK doesn't have any such option tocreate a new file or to add or delete records or otherdata entries.