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Guest fabrytnix

Flight1 & piracy

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>Bernt,>>I guess that as a developer I must ask this: Is it okay if a>protection scheme sometimes does harm a customer? If yes, may>it be one in ten? In a hundred? In a thousand?The answer is none since that would place the vendor in the posistion of stealing from a customer.-------------------------------------------------------------------The real issue has been overlooked by some here so please bear with me for a moment....Flight One ecommerce system is the most user friendly system used in FS Distribution but is only a Retail Ecommerce System which is dependant upon user interaction.It, like all other Retail Ecommerce Systems, requires the USER to INPUT and ARCHIVE his personal information and UPDATE his information in order for the system to work.The weak point in the chain is the USERS failure to ARCHIVE and/or UPDATE his information. That seems to be the case here and the vendor seems to have bent over backwards to accomodate the users failures and is STILL accused of stealing from the customer...With all due respect, I know Steve Halpern and team personally and in over five years of association have NEVER seen one shred of dishonesy with them...In my opinion, the F1 team deserves a public apology along with a note of thanks to the F1 team for their outstanding efforts to accomodate the original poster:-)

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>....I came up with the correct "lost" order number. The alternate email address you provided was not correct, but was close.The problem is that I did NOT purchase the FSX update!As I wrote to Jeff, it might be possible that someone who has his own partition on my PC, bought it. Unfortunately this seems to have happened. I couldn't provide the 'correct' e-mail address as it isn't mine and I don't know it.I don't understand how someone who has never purchased the fs9 version can buy the fsx upgrade?Furthermore I have the impression that the wrapper only checks the hardware.Does this mean, if e.g. two or more people, who each have their own partition on a single PC, only need a single key file, despite having totally different user data?However, thanks for resolving this problem and square one is confirmed, especially concerning customer service ;)RegardsBernt Capt 767

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>The weak point in the chain is the USERS failure to ARCHIVE and/or UPDATE his information. >That seems to be the case hereThis has not been the case!Especially as a vendor, I would appreciate if don't accuse me as you don't know the facts nor the e-mails Jeff and I exchanged! >In my opinion, the F1 team deserves a public apology See the sentence above. Apparently there IS a problem (or a weakpoint) with the wrapper, check response #26.RegardsBernt Capt 767

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Bernt, I'll stand by my statement. I do agree that I am not privy to your email exchanges nor should I be. It does seem, from a casual observers viewpoint, to be "over the top" to title the thread as you have since the error seems to have come from your questions about your own hard drive...No system known to man can work without proper input...you know the old garbage in/garbage out analogy.If a user does not archive or present proper information then the system cannot work without a human tracking down the error and inputting the proper information....A quick read of your response speaks volumes on where the error came from and it doesn't seem to be on the F1 end.:-)

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>the system cannot work without a human tracking down the error and inputting the proper information....And exactly THIS is called customer support!If it would work fully automatic under all circumstances, there would be no need for customer support anyway.Looking at your attitude concerning customer support, I'm glad that I never considered eaglesoft addons :)RegardsBernt Capt 767

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Hmm, if Flight One's attempt to support their customer results in you accusing them of theft in a public forum then we too are glad that you haven't considered our products.:-)

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Please show me the part where I accused Flight1 of theft...RegardsBernt Capt 767

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Poor choice of words on my part...should have said inference that Flight 1 was guilty of theft because you weren't satisfied with the speed of their support.The title of the thread was clearly made to cast dispersions on Flight 1 and to infer that they had mistreated you in some way.Any casual reader of this thread could come to the same conclusion and probably already have...

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Just for clarification, I would never have started this thread if there wouldn't have been this ongoing piracy discussion and about the flightsimmers being the 'bad' guys.It was a coincidence that I had this one-time-only bad experience with Flight1. So I pointed out what had happened and that very good companies like Carenado are still there without any 'must have' problematic, time consuming protection systems.>Flight 1 was guilty of theft because you weren't satisfied with the speed of their support.Not true. I said that the 'ticket was closed' and hence the support ended as soon as I had paid for the full version.I was surprised that there was no further support planned.Not a single word about theft.If you mix up the request for customer support with the accusation of theft......I want to point out how professional and customer oriented AGAIN, Steve has handled this whole issue. Hats off!As Steve and I have both agreed that we are back at square one, it makes me sad that this thread is still active due to a vendor who isn't even remotely involved.I would highly appreciate if we can put this to rest now. RegardsBernt Capt 767

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Unfortunately there is not at all solidarity in flightsim community and more in general in consumer community.The reality is this one:all software is regulary cracked and protections are effective only against honest people that buy the software.I think that communuty should boycot software houses that use protections that play up (i mean create discomfort or problems to) theirs customers

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I've already said that my choice of words was poor. I should have read from a bit more in depth view than a casual observers point of view. That's what I get for posting while exhausted... On the surface it seems there is nothing more here than another disgruntled customer who infers that he is mistreated by a vendor.I'm happy to let it rest as well:-)

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Bernt,At the risk of spoiling what is in fact a beautiful friendship, I must say something to you in public . . .You wrote " about the flightsimmers being the 'bad' guys."I never said that, nor do I recall anybody else saying that. I recall many comments, including some from me, to the effect that sometimes customer support hassles have driven people from both the payware and freeware industries.As a customer I have a realistic set of expectations. I don

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Great idea! Who, in your opinion, does that leave available as vendors?DJ

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ubersu and jskorna,Who were you talking to? And could you be more explicit about what you were saying?

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Speaking to Fabrizio... I'm curious as to which vendors meet his criteria for completely inoffensive protection systems and perfect support.DJ

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Actually unfortunately the general level of reliability is quite low, some SH doesn't resolve bugs, others don't keep their words, others if you have a disk crash and you have not a backup of files, or of keys, or if you have not the number of your old credit card that you changed, and so one... you are not able to reinstall the product you have honestly paid.May be I remember not well, but I think that times a go the situation was much better than the actual one.Every SH has a "valid" justification for these problems, but I think those justifications are not convincing, or are not convincing the criteria used to solve.More deeply: in older and/or more advanced markets or environments there is more consideration about ethic.But ethic behaviours have to be stimulated by consumers,

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What I meant was that you provided an alternate persons email address that the upgrade order could be under. That did not match what you gave, but I found a variation of that email address tied to the FSX upgrade of your original FS2004 version order number.So your original order was used as part of the upgrade to the FSX version at some point in December.The upgrade is not dependent on hardware... but it is dependent on data you enter when purchasing the upgrade (your "certificate number" from your previous sale).

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Fabrizio,Thank you for your thoughts. Perhaps I have been fortunate in my choice of vendors; I have never had a problem with obtaining keys, etc. I do keep records of all my purchases, and I do keep backups of the installed products on several machines and on CD as well. Flight1 - whose name is in the title of this thread - has sold me a number of products (and other vendors who use the F1 wrapper have sold me even more) and in every case I have had no problems in re-installation or in obtaining replacement keys if required. They have an excellent and simple to use system that requires a minimum of recordkeeping. I must admit that I actually enjoy doing business with them.Having said that, I must also say that some vendors suffer from a degree of paranoia that is almost pathological, provide inadequate or unwilling support, and have complex and difficult registration systems for their products. I generally don't do business with them more than once, and keep an eye on the forums (with a degree of suspicion, since there are always two sides to a story...) to watch out for those who might be suspect.What's the bottom line? I guess that it is up to the consumer to pay attention, use all sources of information available, and to protect him or herself by keeping proper backups and records. In addition, one should be aware that companies do go out of business, that support ends for obsolete products, that promises and expectations may not be fulfilled, and that not every bug can or will be fixed no matter how important that bug may seem to a given user.I generally stay out of these discussions because they rarely seem to go anywhere, but thought that some degree of reason might be appropriate in this one. I've enjoyed FS for many years, seen a lot of changes, have drawers full of obsolete products, had good and bad products, seen vendors come and go, and had a heck of a good time in spite of it all!Regards,DJ:-)

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That was most eloquent, ubersu. How would you like to write for The Aviator magazine, of which I am the Chief Editor? (And Advertising Manager, folks. :))

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Ubersu,I don't agree with you about F1: me too times ago in particular with LDS 767 I had problems.because of credit card number and disk changed.F1 doesn't resolve my problem and I had to make a research in bank to find an old electronic credit card number.I repeat that honest consumer haven't to get problems because of piracy and I'm sorry but I repeat that protection are effective only against honest consumers, Agreed with you about discussions that rarely go somwhere.However should be enough whenever discussion stmulate thinking overP.S @ zzmikezz: SH means software house

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