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Cessnaflyer

Airlines vis-a-vis Passengers

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Guest CRJ700FO

>>What Go! did to Aloha was borderline criminal in its price>fixing. >>IIRC Aloha was involved in trying to squeeze out Pacific>Wings, so it's a two-way street.Pacific Wings is originally a Nevada based airline and is hardly an apples to apples comparison. Aloha and Hawaiian were the two primary competitors in this market until the ex-con Ornstein decided to illegally look at their books and open up shop.

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We are not going to agree. I believe that airlines are just another business subject to market forces in the same way as any other busineess and neither them nor there employees deserve any special protection. Times change and companies and their employees must change with them if they are to survive. I'm not alone in this. The EU policy is based on this. Government aid to airlines is no longer generally allowed in the EU.As the the argument that a pilot with say 2,500 hr expereience is beter than one with 250h dosen't necessarily follow. He may in fact only have 250hr experience ten timesover!

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CRJ700Fo, you cannot argue with people that haven't been in our shoes,let them try Nights,weekends,holidays,dealing with idiots in dispatch,maintenance control,idiotic empty suit management,extreme heat,cold,no parts,to many mel's,greedy CEO's,FAA looking over your shoulder all the time,responsible for the lives of crying,jerry springer passengers,more paperwork than a doctor. People outside of our jobs are clueless! Oh yes ever dwindling pay,that does not keep up with inflation.Did I miss anything:-)


Jim Driscoll, MSI Raider GE76 12UHS-607 17.3" Gaming Laptop Computer - Blue Intel Core i9 12th Gen 12900HK 1.8GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB GDDR6; 64GB DDR5-4800 RAM; Dual M2 2TB Solid State Drives.Driving a Sony KD-50X75, and KDL-48R470B @ 4k 3724x2094,MSFS 2020, 30 FPS on Ultra Settings.

Jorg/Asobo: “Weather is a core part of our simulator, and we will strive to make it as accurate as possible.”Also Jorg/Asobo: “We are going to limit the weather API to rain intensity only.”


 

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Guest PARADISE

I can't think of any industry in the US right now who's pay is keeping up with inflation.........other than the bonuses of the CEO's that run these failing corporations, most people's purchasing power is dwindling.Kind of a "catch 22" isn't it? Airlines need to increase their fares to survive, yet when they increase such they lose passengers (either to competitors or passengers leaving flying all together).........thus sending them further into debt.

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>CRJ700Fo, you cannot argue with people that haven't been in>our shoes,let them try Nights,weekends,holidays,dealing with>idiots in dispatch,maintenance control,idiotic empty suit>management,extreme heat,cold,no parts,to many mel's,greedy>CEO's,FAA looking over your shoulder all the time,responsible>for the lives of crying,jerry springer passengers,more>paperwork than a doctor. People outside of our jobs are>clueless! Oh yes ever dwindling pay,that does not keep up with>inflation.Did I miss anything:-) All businesses have problems. What you say may well be true but it doesn't give any reason to treat airlines differently from any other business by giving them and their employees special protection. Times change and business have to change with them or go under - that's the way of the world.

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Given the apparently insurmountable problems with fuel supply, costs, security and the overall unpleasantness of mass air travel- one has to wonder if we are witnessing a major economic shift.Popular, cheap air travel may well be a sunset industry- and flying may again, become economically available to only those who can afford a premium price. I'm old enough to remember the query "Wow- Did you really fly? What was it like!"Alex Reid

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Well,I left the industry,and a lot of fellow mech's are following.With the dwindling experience levels,and outsourcing,the safety margin is decreasing.I guess when there are enough smoking holes in the ground,mech's will be paid more money again. Most of the guys I work with now,(subway trains)are highly experienced airline guys who are sick of the industry.


Jim Driscoll, MSI Raider GE76 12UHS-607 17.3" Gaming Laptop Computer - Blue Intel Core i9 12th Gen 12900HK 1.8GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB GDDR6; 64GB DDR5-4800 RAM; Dual M2 2TB Solid State Drives.Driving a Sony KD-50X75, and KDL-48R470B @ 4k 3724x2094,MSFS 2020, 30 FPS on Ultra Settings.

Jorg/Asobo: “Weather is a core part of our simulator, and we will strive to make it as accurate as possible.”Also Jorg/Asobo: “We are going to limit the weather API to rain intensity only.”


 

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Guest CRJ700FO

>All businesses have problems. What you say may well be true>but it doesn't give any reason to treat airlines differently>from any other business by giving them and their employees>special protection. Times change and business have to change>with them or go under - that's the way of the world.This isn't some "business". It ALREADY has SPECIAL privileges ALL on the management side. We cannot simply go on strike like ANY other "business". The government has eliminated ALL of our bargaining power and simply allows excess capacity to flatten the market.If aviation were a true "market": Continental, US Airways, America West, Delta, NWA, United, etc. would all be GONE. There is no "marketplace" in aviation.It isn't treating them differently now, they are ALREADY treated differently in the US.

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BIGSKY- Subway trains may turn out to be a wise career choice!Mileposts in the news:June 2007- Alan Greenspan-retiring Federal Reserve Chairman says in his biography that he believes the US can cope with $70 oil.May 8/08- Merrill Lynch reports fuel now accounts for 40% of total airline costs.May 8/08- The Iranian oil minister is quoted that he expects oil to soon reach $200 per barrel.May 9/08- Oil reaches $126+ per barrel.Alex Reid

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It's a bad situation - high labor costs and high fuel costs = higher ticket costs. Higher ticket costs (the ones airline employees want)= fewer passengers. Fewer passengers = layoffs. Layoffs = unemployed airline workers. The reason there are so many airline employees now is that the cost of flying could be afforded by just about everyone. Change that back to the way it was pre-1960s, and you're going to have a LOT of workers that have to be let go. Hmm So what IS the answer?Another perspective - I hear a lot of airline employees who say that ticket prices are way too low. Most (not all) of these same people fly for free.I hear AA employees wanting the company to restore the pay cuts they took after 9/11, plus new pay increases on top of that. At the same time, the price of fuel is more than twice what it was at that time, so the company is starting to hemorrhage cash - again. The idea of traveling is going to change, the way we're headed. It'll be too costly to fly OR drive for many families. That leaves trains and buses, which, of course, also rely on petroleum. See what happens when those employees decide they deserve more, too. There's always the bicycles. ;-)


BobK

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I found that as an airline employee,the travel bennys were not all that good. First of all,you are on standby,second,you better have the money for a full fare ticket,because being late for work,because you were bumped off a flight results in termination of employment. This was made worse after 9-11,because as mech's ,we were deemed unworthy of accessing the cockpit jump seat.:-roll


Jim Driscoll, MSI Raider GE76 12UHS-607 17.3" Gaming Laptop Computer - Blue Intel Core i9 12th Gen 12900HK 1.8GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB GDDR6; 64GB DDR5-4800 RAM; Dual M2 2TB Solid State Drives.Driving a Sony KD-50X75, and KDL-48R470B @ 4k 3724x2094,MSFS 2020, 30 FPS on Ultra Settings.

Jorg/Asobo: “Weather is a core part of our simulator, and we will strive to make it as accurate as possible.”Also Jorg/Asobo: “We are going to limit the weather API to rain intensity only.”


 

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Guest CRJ700FO

as opposed Bob to lower ticket prices and management raping employees during every downturn in the economy.What pay cuts did Arpey take? How's Stenland doing with his merger? Why does Tilton want a merger badly with United (could it be the $20 million he'd receive)?We get the DIRECT operating cost of our flights on the release. My CA and my portion of it is MINISCULE. The "labor" costs they use to justify slashing my wages are the middle management hordes that most airlines employ to distill their brilliant ideas and revenue schemes.You know it is bad when Bob Crandall, Bob F@#$ing Crandall, says it's time to treat employees better. Whose next, Frank Lorenzo to call the current airline managers "greedy"?

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Hey Jim - I know you were at HYA with Colgan Air before - Where are you working out of now?


BobK

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Whose next, Frank Lorenzo to call the current airline managers "greedy"?That's not good at all!

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