COMPLAINT ARIANE'S NEW CON!!!!! what can we do?

[Kimchoc 1]

I agree Russ. The "deal" isn't what you signed up for when you bought it. However, i doubt a lawsuit is worth it. You'd probably win, but at what cost.So you make your point know with your wallet. And here.The nature of this venue is to build computers and tweak them to improve our experience. We certainly need a way to re-load a product we bought whenever we wish. Perhaps there is a price that we could pay for that privilege right at the point of purchase. Maybe $29.95 gets you 3 re-installs and 49.95 gives you 10. I just thew those up as an example.But whatever it is, we need the ability to re-load without paying $20.00. Thats outrageous.And on the other sub topic, I too have been the victim of the "Avsim name ######'s" in the past. So anyone willing to come and prove that my screen name is not my real name, go ahead and start your own lawsuit. Until then, I comply.Rufus Kimchoc

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Ariane said if i post on avsim about this thay will suspend my account and take away what i paid for!!"Huh? Regards,John

[Guest Staggerwing]

Avsim must have your real name on your account when you join, nicknames can be used in the forum posts.There are perhaps some commercial product forums here that require real names in their forums for customer service etc.From the Avsim "Terms of Use" ;Your account must adhere to the following: 1.) Your user ID (Nickname) can be your choice, but you must provide your REAL FULL First and Last Name. Any accounts that do not have a real full first and last name provided will be removed. Note: Your username cannot be changed once you register, so please be careful when deciding on that. If you want to change your username, you will need to contact the forum admin to remove your account.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Russ UK4DT...... <------------ Russ is my name. no way will i stick my last name up!! ALL ISP's say... DONT POST YOUR INFO ON ANY PAGE'S i.e last name ect ect... hackers can and will find you."To comment on this sub thread, there is no way in hades a hacker can ruin your day just based on your first and last name appearing in a public forum. Nor can your identity be stolen. However, posting your email, first and last name of course can lead to problems. Or posting your first and last name with other personal information. However, does our last name need to be on every post to establish our bona fides here? I don't think so. I believe Avsim's rules: we furnish our real identity when signing up for their site. I don't think those rules extend to having to sign off every post with our first and last name. I worry less about hackers and more about those who are a few cylinders short of full horsepower. Over the years some people in the forums seem to take being disagreed with a bit too personally, to the point where I wonder is some on the fringe seek out their perceived antagonists to wreak havoc.I've always signed 90 pct. of my posts here as John and only have added my last name when discussing one of my freeware releases, in part so those reading those threads can recognize the product author was contributing. I've never worried about Ariane or any other product developer knowing who I am. As long as I don't libel a company or try to be malicious in my actions, I live in a country where I can freely express my feelings about a product. If any company tried to stifle my license based on a critique of their practices, I would make certain that future buyers would be aware and have such a threat as food for thought. But I'd also make sure I could document such a threat lest it be construed as libelous.Regards,John (Cillis)

[Guest russell_UK4DT]

Ho John!> worry less about hackers and more about those who are a few cylinders short of full horsepower...... (I love that comment... may i use it at work? ;-). lolyes i agree this post was also to warn people like myself who have fell into the tishma trap... avsim prob suport this post as Tishma has no support for thos who deisgn aircraft panel's ect.... like PSS..Uk2000scenery ect ect......thank's to tishma he stole he's work and used it to feed he's greed! i bet he felt gutted when all he's software was removed from stors and he's name put in the blackbox..... just go to show that he cheated them aswell...I will make some calls tomorrow. i did take screenshot's of the sale. (like i do with all my online sales) and send that off to the UK justice system. see what thay say. :-)Who els has had problems with ariane? Russ UK4DT

[mgh 89]

I'm not lost with your original post. My point is still where in the agreement (as you call it) does it state that you are entitled to free re-registration for the indefinite future. If (as I suspect) it doesn't then you've no right to it and it's just too bad if Arianne start to charge.Incidentally, what evidence have you that Peter Tishma is still involved with Arianne?

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Incidentally, what evidence have you that Peter Tishma is still involved with Arianne?"That's a great question. I'd love to know the answer myself.My sense of evaluating a business "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck...."Ariane's website. advert. emails and their approach to promoting product hasn't changed one iota since the birth of the company. It's still designed, in my opinion, like an infomercial trying to make the description of their product justify the price of the product. That style of advertising dates back to the beginning, back to the days when Peter T. was alleged to be running the show.The other item to note is the nature of their emails to the customer. If there's even one shred of truth, the idea that a company can consistently look for revenue streams and try to create prose in which to justify them leads me to believe someone with a talent for words is still at the helm. Who could that be? Your guess is as good as mine, but Peter T. sure had a talent for words, didn't he?To me, payware comes down to a set of expectations and certainty that I will be treated as a committed hobbyist, not as someone out to steal. Flight One, Carenado, PMDG, and Dreamfleet all serve as the example I look at when buying payware. The best way to vote is with our wallets, and I feel our posts are more effective when we suggest who we recommend, vs. who we do not. Regards,John

[Guest russell_UK4DT]

hi John.....i could not agree with you more...now that iv met avsim..... and a Big Hello and Thank you for letting me into the fourm!...sorry to come in on bad term's... just wanted to get some advise... but from what i have recived from avsim and the fourms im able to make the right choice in paying for a aircraft...Russ. UK4DT L0(

[Guest russell_UK4DT]

Good afternoon gents!Ok a new con from ariane! Buyer's beware!If you buy there aircraft and want to format/reinstall. it will cost you another 10 pounds $20 on top! (some kind of admin fee??)This is Bulls*it. my 737vce is 12 monthd old. this fee was not out in force back then!. and now im not allowd to use it anymore untill i pay more money!....Trading standards may want to hear about this...if you want a ariane aircraft then check this link first.(i wish i did)....http://www.avsim.com/pages/0902/pt_again.htmlYou will find there software on sale with other venders.. you will still hafto pay ariane the fee..This is what there page says about it..Reactivation Ticket. Due to the growing number of claims over new pc's, changing motherboards, changing disks, reformatting, re-installations and other reasons that lead to re-installation on more than one occasion, there will now be a charge for re-activations to cover the growing and very high costs of administrating these requests.This charge will lead to a monitoring of a users hardware system when the request is sent in. This ticket will not guarantee or allow users to install to multiple PC's - users may only install to the PC that they own and that they use in relation to the original order purchased for the original product meaning that the ticket can ONLY be used on the product that is being activated and not installed to any more than one PC.The cost of a ticket is issued against both old and newer orders from any previous year and is based on the added cost to our company to cover the growing amount of requests to re-install older products and for administration costs to trace orders, to check them against receipts and to process them and send out new activations and then to continue to support the older product going back to 2005. We cannot be expected to support these older products.This type of charge and its related cost is standard across the industry and in no way is made to make a profit - the charge covers the costs involved in employing support staff to administrate a large amount of user requests (especially over the weekend). The purchase of tickets or 'credits' has become a standard in the industry although this ticket is not to be considered a credit for any multiple opportunity. By purchasing this ticket the user understand that it is to cover the high support and admin costs that are not covered by products issued on a once-only use format.We would ask all users to bear in mind that the original price of the product paid for one activation license and originally held provision for what was thought to be a reasonable amount of support and re-activation traffic and in no way allowed for multiple activations of any kind over any period. Due to the changing situation and due to users jumping back and forth between FS9 and FSX this charge has also been brought in to help to cover the high costs of administration and support (especially going back to 2005).WARNING: This ticket in no way allows for any user or anyone to conduct multiple activations of our products. Anyone transferring any license to any other PC or found to be abusing this system will be denied any further activations or products from this company and any and all of its affiliates and distributors. Any abuse of any ticketing system will be reported to other web sites and flight sim shops as well as the offending users credit card company who, upon being given an abusing users details will have the right to register the related abuse action to the transaction as fraudulent.can we do anything?Who has had problems with ariane?? i would like to hear a few storysabout this company... also to show others not to spend there cash on this rubbish.thank's all....and let's not burn this post... i think it will help a few people.UK4DT

[Bob Scott 7,715]

Re: Ariane, Captain Sim, FSD, et al.1. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware)2. There's one born every minute.3. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[craig_read 43]

I've just got done by this.. I am livid.. I'll be warning everyone off this company from this point forward..Craig

[Glynn 405]

Hello CraigI bought the Boeing BBJ on 29 july 1997 and the fee for reactivating the product was in place even then.So for you to say that it is only a recent change is plainly WRONG.Still a quick GOOGLE would have given you enough to make an informed buying choice, As another poster said Buyer Beware.It probably wont be the last time you get burned as far as Flightsim addons are concerned, I have been caught out a few times tooPSS , Flight Factory Simulations ect.Nowadays if it does not come from a small select group of developers who are well trusted by folks on this forum or is not using the Flight1 wrapper i dont buy.

[craig_read 43]

"So for you to say that it is only a recent change is plainly WRONG."I didn't say it was recent.. I said I've just got done by it.. i.e. I didn't know about it until now.. and I'm furious.. I don't understand how they can justify this cost at all.. employ who exactly?.. The machine reads the mail... runs a script.. then mails it back.. it's totally automated!! I develop systems like this.. It's not difficult or expensive.. and it's certainly not the norm like the site claims.. PMDG don't do it.. for starters!Regards...Craig

[Guest SoarPics]

Re: Ariane, Captain Sim, FSD, et al.1. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware)2. There's one born every minute.3. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.QFT

[greggerm 312]

>3. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat>it....problem is, not everyone knows the history (eg: Craig above), and ends up burned. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.Not everyone researches a company prior to purchase - which leads to the continuing problems. But the way I see it, the losses incurred by the original poster and Craig are gains for all the rest of us reading along. All those looking in on the thread know where they will, and where they won't spend their flightsimming dollars. All those who haven't yet read about it yet may have to learn the hard way... should they fall into the trap.-Greg