GDI+ analog instuments

[marcom 139]

Hi everyone!I am happy to see that GDI+ rendered instruments are being widely used. But to this day I haven't seen a single smooth-moving analog instrument.(say an ADI)Where is the problem?

[Guest VulcanB2]

Hi,I think there are two reasons:1) GDI+ isn't straight-forward to program2) See point 1:(I do know what you mean though - fluidity in analog FS panels is severely lacking.Best regards,Vulcan.

[MKaprocki 3]

I made some ASIs and stuff a few years ago in some tests, but it wasn't worth the framerate issues the slower comps see.

[Guest glaspere]

>Hi everyone!>>I am happy to see that GDI+ rendered instruments are being>widely used. But to this day I haven't seen a single>smooth-moving analog instrument.>(say an ADI)>Where is the problem?>Try the RealAir Simulations SF260 (Euro 24.00). It has the smooth rendered instruments you're looking for - with no noticible framerate penalty! I am amazed other companies aren't licensing their "Smooth Guage Technology." You won't believe your eyes. Apart from the instuments it's also a fantastic aircraft with superb flight modeling.You can find additional info and purchase here...http://www.realairsimulations.com/msfs-air...2005/index.htmlGood luck,EG

[n4gix 4,947]

>Try the RealAir Simulations SF260 (Euro 24.00). It has the>smooth rendered instruments you're looking for - with no>noticible framerate penalty! I am amazed other companies>aren't licensing their "Smooth Guage Technology." Er, those are simply XML coded gauges. The XML code is embedded in the model file, and the "parts" are modeled in 3d.However, RealAir didn't "invent" the technique......Microsoft did!You simply put the XML "gauge code" in the MakeMDL.parts.xml file and apply the tags to the relevant parts in the GMax model... :)Granted, RealAir expanded the MS idea and broke some fresh ground with things that hadn't been done in any of the default a/c, but it is nevertheless MS's "idea."

[nickpike 0]

Hi Bill, do you know if it is possible to make the aircraft and gauge parts in FSDS, and then run this through makemodel to take advantage of the makemdl.parts.xml file?Also, anyone know when FSDS is to be updated to allow the use of XML code. This has been rumoured for some time.nick

[n4gix 4,947]

>Hi Bill, do you know if it is possible to make the aircraft>and gauge parts in FSDS, and then run this through makemodel>to take advantage of the makemdl.parts.xml file?Not directly, no. MakeMDL.exe will only compile .X files...>Also, anyone know when FSDS is to be updated to allow the use>of XML code. This has been rumoured for some time.I provided some information to Louis Sinclair over three months ago in an effort to help his understanding of how the process works. Since then, I've not heard anything further from him, either pro or con.Being an optimist, I choose to believe that my explanation and example files were brilliant, and he has been able to find a way to implement this in FSDSx, but recognize that may not be the case at all... ;)

[Guest JeanLuc_]

Let me also add that this technique, or better said, using the available SDK possibilities to do this, has been documented in a forum almost when FS2004 was released. I guess few vendors are using this, like Bill explained in another thread, because this applies ONLY to the VC. When offering aircraft with both a VC and a 2D panel, this in turn would mean that the vendor has to do twice as much work for the same product (two versions of the gauge, one set for the VC and one set for the 2D panel), and this will be reflected on the price.Furthermore, this applies only to "needle" type of gauge. Anything EFIS like (GPS with a screen, EADI etc...) cannot use this approach.The best would be a technique allowing smooth gauges, like True Display XP technology driving the Reality XP Sandel SN3308 or Jet Line, but for steam gauges. That would make them as smooth, but in both the 2D panel AND the virtual Cockpit!Hope this helps!Jean-Luc

[Guest iholrf]

All good things come to those who wait. :)CheersShad

[Guest glaspere]

Thanks for the insight. I was simply responding to the original author's quest for smooth analog guages - the RealAir SF260 provides that. Are there other manufacturers acheiving sharp and smooth guages through different methods?Thanks again,EG

[Guest Karl R Pettersen]

Well, there also exist quite a limitation to these techniques, which is why I won't even try them. Although the gauge graphics might be held in the panel, the mechanism driving the needle is still part of the modelfile. This means that it cannot be changed to read your personalized tooltip, add compatibility with some of your own other gauges you might have installed, fix any failure handling, or even replace it with a digital gauge if you wanted so.You might get smooth gauges, but the cost is far too high for me.

[virtuali 4,421]

I'm developing the Caravelle for Cloud9, due out in the next months:http://www.fscloud9.com/php/projects.php?lang=EN&id=48100% analog panel, all GDI+, absolutely smooth. In fact, the instrument refresh rate is not longer limited by the standard 18 hz gauges, so if the PC is running a 30 fps, the instruments will all refresh at that frame rate. Even more, if the PC can handle it.It's the only airplane in FS were I'm able to handfly an ILS just by following the Flight Director bars, because thanks to the smooth refresh, they become easier to follow.And, some interesting effects, like shadows for all needles, and, as you can see from the screenshots, glass effects *over* the needles.This panel will probably destroy the "GDI+ is too slow to make a complex panel" myth I keep reading on many places, since it displays a lot of gauges without slowing down. If will probably be the first GDI+ analog panel, both available in 2D and VC.No, it's not using any of the SDK, XML or GDI+ known techniques, I had to program an entire new C++ framework from scratch, because the handling of the graphics for an analog gauge in GDI+ is totally different compared to a glass gauge. Even more so, if you don't want to slow down the frame rate to unusable values.cheers,

[marcom 139]

Sounds really great!!Looking forward to - any chance of a video?Or would a video just destroy any FPS advantage?

[virtuali 4,421]

>Or would a video just destroy any FPS advantage?That's exactly the problem I had. There's no way to create a video that would be able to give the exact feeling of the running product.First and foremost, the frame rate, I haven't managed to use, say, Fraps running at 30 fps or better without resorting to have a very low resolution during capture.And, since the panel, having vector antialiased needles, and true type antialiased fonts, looks better and better the higher resolution you use, any usual internet video will destroy the impression of quality, short of using HDTV perhaps, with hundreds of MB of data just for the video!cheers,Umberto Colapicchioni - VIRTUALI s.a.s.http://www.virtualisoftware.com

[marcom 139]

Yeah thought so too :-(Have you thought about releasing a demo gauge just like reality xp did?Say an ADI that will run on its own?