Can our community get FSPlanet to change its practices?

[mgh 89]

You don't seem to appreciate the differences between web sites and ISP. A web site owner has direct control over the content and can freely add or remove it as it requires. ISPs host web sites and has no direct control over their content. US law covers the relationship between websites and ISPs and provides a procedure to complain to an ISP about a web site. ISPs have a right to expect that any complaints are properly justified before acting on them. That's what US Code Title 17 Section 512 provides. Whenever you make a complaint about anything there may be a risk (however fanciful) of personal retribution. I assume you never make formal complaints because of your fears?Following procedures laid down by law is not prostrating yourself. It's the only way to go if you want to use the law.As long as I can remember there have been complaints about FSPlanet and other similar sites with appeals and challenges to those who advertise and those who shop with them. As I pointed out in my initial post that's been totally ineffectual."It's time such people get the law shoved back at them that they shove in our faces" Then use the law!

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Following procedures laid down by law is not prostrating yourself. It's the only way to go if you want to use the law."I do understand the difference between the site owner and the ISP, my concern is the ISP could forward personal information to the site owner. In most instances I wouldn't care, but when a site owner believes they can use their own interpretation of the "law", at what lengths will they go? It is easy for someone such as yourself or anyone to come in and tell us what to do. But you're not in my shoes. Rather than joining this thread to express empathy, it's all about what I am not doing."I assume you never make formal complaints because of your fears?"That's a completely nonsensical comment. Of course I do, but one weighs the risks to not only ourselves, but friends and family. I've been on this planet long enough that I've been quite effective in living my life including dealing with challenges like this. If ranting is all I do, who gives a bleep whether it meets your litmus test of "effectiveness".I don't think this thread ineffective. Even if I do nothing else, I know people have heard.-J

[mgh 89]

The decision whether you use remedies provided by law or not is obviously yours. However, if everyone adopted your approach and refused to use them, then there will never be any effective action taken. What lengths do you think they might go to, and what evidence do you have for it?How do you know I'm not in your shoes? An aircraft of mine is on FSPlanet without my permission.I said that previous complaints etc over many years had proved to be totally ineffective, as evidenced by the fact that FSPlanet is still in existence. I'm a realist and fear that this thread will not change the position- even if I and everyone else express empathy until it comes out of our ears - even if it makes you feel better.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"What lengths do you think they might go to, and what evidence do you have for it?"When Tom posts about threats against Avsim that is all the evidence I need. Sure they don't hold weight, but these days just the threat of someone tying one up in court is enough, or the hassle of my family seeing the junk the site owner has supposedly sent in the past. I don't have deep pockets or the personal bandwidth to deal with that type of hassle--and being a non commercial developer (in my private life since I work for a commercial team), the return on investment isn't worth it. You are absolutely right this thread won't change FSPlanet's position, one person can't unless the community work together to stop their practices. But the thread does express my feelings. That's worth a lot to me.RegardsJohn

[mgh 89]

Yhe community working together won't stop these prectices - it hasn't in the past and I don't see why it should now.The only effective way is to get the ISP to take action against FSPlanet. The ISP won't do that unless the correct legal procedures are followed. As far as I am concerned, life is too short to worry about FSPlanet - I don't really care about the fools who pay to download what's freely available here - so I'm not going to start the procedures. On the other hand I don't start threads on the subject either.

[Guest RichUK]

If you don't start a thread on the subject of your free software being used in that way then that's obviously your right. It is also John's right to start a thread on the issue. You seem to have an issue with that and I can't figure out why.Sure, we've been here before and the community hasn't managed to stop this from happening, but why not bring the subject again? We all know what is happening is wrong and I personally see no harm in stating that fact. Surely we can make a difference, even if it is small. If just a few people read this thread and decide not to pay for a 'service' that is hosting and charging for software against the authors wishes then I think that's a good thing.Rich.

[mgh 89]

My original answer to the OP's question "Can our commumunity get FSPlanet to change..." was:"The direct answer to the question is no. If it were possible then it would have been done long ago.The complaint form that is linked to in another post simply repeats the requirements of US law. US Code Title 17 Section 512 states "To be effective under this subsection, a notification of claimed infringement must be a written communication provided to the designated agent of a service provider that includes substantially the following:" (My emphasis) That's followed by exactly the same wording as in the link.To invoke the law, its required procedures must be followed. Those who can't be bothered to do that can't expect anything to be done."The remainder of my posts basically made the point in the last sentence - if you aren't prepared to do what can be done then don't complain. Remember, it was the OP who brought the ISP into this thread.

[rightseater 0]

Looks like we're stuck in the pattern on this one. I think there are some things here we can all agree on though. It is disgusting, ignorant, and entirely disrespectful to host copywrited work without permission. FSPlanet has a history of doing just this, and will likely continue to do so. Thieves like this will never be stopped unless we come together to do something about it. Contacting there advertisers is a good start, and so is coming here to the AVSIM forums. Keep in mind that new people join these forums everyday, many of which are certainly unaware of the history of certain vendors and other FS sites.Thanks to the OP for bringing this most recent event of thievery to our attention. I would use a boycott FSPlanet banner, but I don't want to violate any rules here or start flame wars. Oh, and one more thing I think we can all agree on. AVSIM is THE one-stop-shop on the web....who needs FSPlanet anyway?-Jeremy