Project Fokker Lift Dumpers

[edetroit 933]

Hello FDE gurus ...could you help me please?The Project Fokker F.28 MK0100 has Autobrakes, Air Brakes (Shift + /) and Lift Dumpers (the wingfold command)After arming all these I found that on touchdown the nosewheel smashed into the ground! (even with pulling the stick back fully!):-lolSo I tried landing using each one on its own.I found that the lift dumpers were solely responsible for this reather scarey effect.Does anybody know which part of the airfile I should alter to negate this effect?

regardsEd

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[adr179 0]

Are we talking about this "Fokker100-620.air" dated 2004-12-02 or is it something else?

[edetroit 933]

....er yes..... well I'm using the "Fokker100-650.air" dated 02/12/2004

regardsEd

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[adr179 0]

I tried that particular version with Alliance livery (VH-FWI) and I'm noticingonly a slight pitch-down tendency after landing, that can easilly be countered with the elevators, so probably something else is wrong with Your configuration. Are You triming for the correct approach speed?I found a simple solution for this pitch down: in Aircraft.cfg change the pointsof main landing gear position from -2.395 to -1.395, so it'll look like this:point.0 = 1, 43.911, 0, -9.7, 1181.1, 0, 1.095, 55.92, 0.23, 2.5, 0.9, 5.8, 5.8, 0, 0, 0point.1 = 1, --->HERE-1.395<---, -8.378, -10.9, 1574.8, 1, 1.276, 0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.9, 7, 7, 2, 0, 0point.2 = 1, --->HERE-1.395<---, 8.378, -10.9, 1574.8, 2, 1.276, 0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.9, 7.1, 7.1, 3, 0, 0and additionaly change section 1101 in air file:CL_Ds=0.05000 andCm_Ds= -0.03000These alterations almos completely cancell any pitching moment due tothe ground reaction on landing.Have fun!

[edetroit 933]

Cheers ADR, I wondering what do the lift dumpers actually do?I can see spoilers ...spoilers drag = etc in the airfilebut wonder what the lift dumpers ( wingfold command) was actually modelled to do.I presume spoilers drag applies to the air brakes (at the rear)It feels like the lift dumpers activate max autobraking.... and that is max with a capital M! :-lol Now you are arming your lift dumpers right not your airbrakes?because everything is fine without using the LD's ...in fact the LD,s bring the a/c to a fairly abrupt halt ...which is why I think they are activating the autobrakes

regardsEd

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[adr179 0]

To be honest, I forgot to arm the autobrakes, but my trials were withAB alone, LD alone and Both without any drama. Trying the suggested configuration now, will let You know.

[adr179 0]

Gosh! In RL that would definitely bring the nose gear into the cockpit.Working on it . . .

[adr179 0]

Aircraft.cfg[brakes]toe_brakes_scale=0.332963parking_brake=1differential_braking_scale = 0.66Fokker100-650.airsection 1101, braking strenght-Max -32767Maybe not exactlly correct values, but certainlly a step in the right direction. A workaround anyway, since it is my bielieve that problem isactually in the autobrake.gau sending values that are to big by, roughly,factor of 10.Probably Rob will read this and add his comment.

[edetroit 933]

Ok m8 I'll give it a try ... two things puzzle me already however.I do not use the Project Fokker panel... I use my own which does not use any of the original panels gauges ..in fact is custom built by myself and uses the bog standard XML codes for autobrakesUsing the autobrakes I find the level of braking ok ... well I say that I have not tried max autobrake.Let me test some more .....

regardsEd

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[edetroit 933]

re:Fokker100-650.airsection 1101, braking strenght-Max -32767Are you using AAM to edit the airfile? ..because it will ony accept values between -16 and 15My other thought was ...if the LD's did activate anytype of braking ...surely there would be a brake message ( I have reactivated my brake message as I usually have it permanently removed.... and no sign of it with the LD)

regardsEd

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[adr179 0]

As I said my mods are only a workaround, since i suspect, that Rob Barendregt programmed the panel that originally came with the packagethe other way. Look at the Aircraft.cfg and You'll see a tailhook section.Since I know he also programed the carrier operations, where hooks are, of course, widely used my first tought was that his autobrake.gau is actually amodified tailhook action, which it probably is. I really don't have the time to really dwell into this plane, somebody already did it almost perfect. Maybe You should send a PM to Rob, he is one of the authors. I'm also using a modified language.dll that kills all of the red messages from the sim, so I wasn't aware of this fact, but this is just another indication, that all braking in this aircraft is solved in another, not widely used way.And I'm sorry about the -32767, this value is for AirEd, which I'm using for basics, AAM equivalent of this value is -15.99951. If You don't know the AirEd, I suggest You to give it a try, it's a bit more straightforward in certainareas than the AAM, but 3D tables are definitely much more pleasant toedit in the AAM.Cheers

[edetroit 933]

Hello ADR179,I really do appreciated the time you have taken to help me. :)I do use AirEd as well.The PF Fokker is desperately in need of an update (apart from the lift dumpers the lights are all to ####) ...why it has not recieved one yet I do not know. :-hmmmI think I will just leave it and go and fly something else. :)

regardsEd

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[GusRodrigues 1]

edward, the big problem when you make a lift dumper in the flight simulator is the problem that your speedbrakes are attached to it.the speed brake from F100/70 are in the tail, not affecting the lift, just incriasing the drag.the lift dumpers deploy just after the touchdown, and destroy the lift.and is IMPOSSIBLE far as I know to work with two different surfaces as speedbrake and lift dumper.

[edetroit 933]

>and is IMPOSSIBLE far as I know to work with two different>surfaces as speedbrake and lift dumper.Thankyou for your comment sir,this is what I am trying to work out...what the Fokker lift dumpers actually do seeing as the airbrake at the rear is using the spoilers part of the airfile ( I know what they are supposed to do IRL )...whatever it is is too violent and I would like to adjust it. :-hahThe only way to grease a landing in this a/c is not to use the LD's which is a shame because they are a big part of this a/c's charachter ...... a little bit of custom XML for models would be a better way of activating the LD's rather than wingfold. :) IMHO

regardsEd

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[adr179 0]

Now, this is interesting, since You claim, that You have a violent pitch-down on touch down with the lift dumpers armed? I never had this problem, the violent pitch down rotation only appeared when air brakes+lift dumpers+autobraking were armed before landing. AB alone or LD alone or AB+LD had no ill effect with me??? And since it's impossible to manage two different surfaces as SB and LD it is my bielieve, that one or the oder was "faked" bythe tailhook section and gau.