Aircraft Fuselage - To See Or Not To See...

[stevekasian 0]

THAT is the question!I want to make the entire aircraft (not just the wings) visible from my VC view (wing view).I am using ActiveCamera, and thus have the ability to slew my viewpoint all around the aircraft, from wingtip to wingtip (when using a wing view panel, of course). But it makes for a very unrealistic experience when the entire fuselage of the aircraft is missing from the view. You realize that all you are is a couple wings and engines racing through the clouds!I am assuming there's a visibility parameter somewhere in the panel.cfg or aircraft.cfg one can set to make this possible?Thanks in advance,SK

[Guest Vorlin]

Actually no. Here's the short version:There isn't just one model of your AC in that mdl file, there are at two. One is displayed from the outside in spot view and the other is displayed in the VC.Why?Processor power. You figure that you have anywhere from 9000 to 40,000 polygons to get the job done before many computers start to stammer and choke. (This figure is a guestimate from reading entirely too many forum posts on the subject). That's not enough to do a decent job all in one model, so...The solution is to use all those polys where they will do the most good on the outside model, and then for the inside put the emphasis somewhere else entirely. This is why the cockpit is blury when viewed from spot view and there is little to nothing behind your seat in the VC.The details in the above description may be off from a little to quite a bit, I'm not an expert in modeling. But, that should answer your question enough to tell you what you need to know.Scott / Vorlin

[n4gix 4,947]

No. There simply is no fuselage to see. If the modeler didn't build it, it won't be there...Even if it were, there would only be an "inside" with no "outside skin"...Since you have Active Camera, why not simply switch to the VC view, then press the X key to move the camera outside the "exterior" model?

[stevekasian 0]

Thanks for the info Vorlin. Much appreciated.So I guess what you're trying to tell me is that the entire aircraft, essentially, needs to be "recreated" a second time in the .mdl in order to be able to see it the way I described from the VC view... right?And, of course, in order for one to do that, one has to know how to create (or at least manipulate) the aircraft .mdl file, so that one can duplicate the original model a second time in the same file. Right?Which, in turn, means I have to learn aircraft modeling (at least somewhat) in order to do it... and even if I do and I am able to duplicate the full model within the .mdl file, it will probably choke my computer to a crawl and won't be worth it. Right?Thanks...SK

[stevekasian 0]

Thanks n4qix.Well, when I switch to exterior view with Active Camera, that viewpoint doesn't follow the aircraft. It essentially acts like a "tower view", creating a viewpoint which is static relative to the FS world.Any way you know of to make that viewpoint follow the aircraft instead?Thanks,SK

[n4gix 4,947]

>Any way you know of to make that viewpoint follow the aircraft>instead?Not with FS9. There's an entirely new camera system for FSX though, and that will satisfy your needs...

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Steve,You don't have to wait until FS-X to do what you want...Please see my post here and follow the link to the .dll that makes it all possible :)http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...&mesg_id=233019-John

[Guest Vorlin]

I'm not sure what John has in mind, but the stock setup is actually even more strange than we have discussed... we were keeping it simple. To really make a VC, you take the fusalage and do what's called "flipping" the normals. The normals are the side that the texture can be displayed on. If you look at something from the wrong side, with the normals facing away from you, it's invisible.To do what you're doing in one view would mean you have to create the entire fusalage for the outside, plus a repeat fusalage for the inside, plus the entire cockpit in detail and then have the horsepower to render that all at once.Though it does help that the only things actually rendered are those in your present view, it's not enough. With all that info at once, your machine would choke and you'd be looking at a slide show.This is why it's split the way that it is.You might be better off finding a way to change views directly back and forth between the VC and spot view or active camera. This would still use 2 views but allow you to go right from inside to outside and back again.What you want is possible... but at the moment it would require more processing power than 99% of us have to run the sim on. Maybe in a year or two...Good luck,Scott / Vorlin

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"I'm not sure what John has in mind"If I understand the first post, the author wants to be able to view the entire aircraft from any position. With the new Recorder.dll beta, you can do that from spot view. Moreover, if the aircraft banks and/or changes pitch, the spot view will do the same as if the camera is an extension of the aircraft. For my shot of the J-31, I used an old model that had no VC and no wing views. I then positioned one of the configurable spot view cameras the Recorder module offers to be roughly akin to a window view a passenger might enjoy. The effect was exactly the same as one would see in a "dynamic wing view" where the wing was part of a VC. But the bonus is that the module allows you to zoom out, around, above, below the aircraft. You can even pan away from the aircraft if you want. You can set up as many camera "positions" for the aircraft as you like and switch between them.The drawback? Obviously if you want to fly from the VC, you have to switch out of spot view back to the VC view--that's not an issue. What this module does is offer a freeware tool that really opens up what can be done in spot view, to the extent one can see the aircraft and fly "with" the aircraft from almost any position.-John

[stevekasian 0]

Nice! Very nice! Thanks a million for this info John - I'll be checking it out, as your description here sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. :-)All the best,SK

[stevekasian 0]

Thanks Vorlin.Yeah, I'm not really looking to recreate 'everything' in the VC view... sometimes I just like to be a "passenger" on my flight... like the little gremlin from The Twilight Zone movie that was jumping all around the wing of the aircraft in the movie :-). So if I'm on a flight using the viewpoint concept which I described, I have no need for the actual cockpit textures or the 'inside' surfaces of the fuselage. I just want to tag along for the flight like a stow-away. :-)(Just to clear up any confusion here: when I am just 'tagging along', I let FSNavigator fly the aircraft. :-) I just love flying, regardless of whether I'm piloting it or not.)I've created a quick-change system for changing my cockpits, sounds, models, etc., around in my favorite aircraft, so this is something that would be used for "special" flights only, not necessarilly all the time. If I want to use the actual VC textures for a flight, I'll just switch to that .cfg for that particular flight... know what I mean?But it sounds like John has pointed me in exactly the direction I need.Thanks a lot for all the info Vorlin! Much appreciated and quite informative. I will no-doubt be needing this knowledge in the future, as I move on to different aspects of FS design.All the best,SK

[Guest iholrf]

Depending on the size of the original plane, you can have the entire exerior as well. I have about 80% of the exterior mapped from the interior, so that looking out any window, I will see the right parts, even from the back seat.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/148928.jpgThe hit on frame rates is really not that bad and can be mitigated by careful application of poly removal at points that are not required for high resolutions like in those areas that can not be seen well from a normal position inside the aircraft.Whats missing right now and what I am in the process of redoing is the nose from the interior perspective. The one thing that drives me crazy about 99% of all fs aircraft is the fact that at my hight, I can usually see the nose of the plane I am sitting in. But in FS almost every plane is cut off at the panel. Very few planes give me the feeling that there is still aircraft beyond the panel.CheersShad