Feelthere/Wilco - Normal Customer rights don't exist

[Speedbird103 0]

Yes, but what you're missing is you've attached your question to a thread which has less to do with a 777 release and more to do with someone's concern over an issue they felt strongly about. The thread's a year old with no activity since 2008, then your post comes along and brings it back to the forefront. It is not proper forum etiquette to reopen a thread like this with your type of question. If you've been on the flightsim forums for a year you should understand. People usually do this for two reasons--forum inexperience, and from time to time there are people who join the forums who intentionally open up threads like these to stir things up. I don't think that's your intention and I do think it was inappropriate for someone to suggest that, but at the same time please understand what's best to do in the forums so you can enjoy your time here.-John

I get ur point but i was just asking is there any 777 addons that would compare to PMDG 747. Because from wat iv heared there is not any "Very Good" 777 addons thats all. I only join AVSIM to seek some advise on this

[Gavin 99]

I get ur point but i was just asking is there any 777 addons that would compare to PMDG 747. Because from wat iv heared there is not any "Very Good" 777 addons thats all. I only join AVSIM to seek some advise on this

No there aren't. Not to PMDG standard.

[Dillon 2,197]

I get ur point but i was just asking is there any 777 addons that would compare to PMDG 747. Because from wat iv heared there is not any "Very Good" 777 addons thats all. I only join AVSIM to seek some advise on this

PSS/Just Flight's version is pretty good especially with a decent freeware soundset (I need to upload the one I created) but it's for FS9.

[canuk22 29]

Can't wait for someone to produce a really good Saab 340 and a BAE146.

[duckbilled 310]

I'd love to see AVSIM create a section just for customer reviews of products, developers and merchants - kind of like a Trip Advisor for flightsim stuff.Don't get me wrong, I think posts like this are useful but AVSIM could close them and tell people to write a review. That is what they do on Trip Advisor. People regularly post mini reviews in the forums and threads get closed because they want people to post official reviews. Something like this would provide a huge service to the community.First, reviews and complaints would be easy to find. After a while this post will end up lost in the vast amount of info at AVSIM.Second, vendors would have an opportunity to respond to complaints in a public forum. They could set the record straight or even resolve a problem.Third, vendors will take issues seriously if they don't already do so. A bunch of 1 star reviews isn't going to drive sales where a bunch of 5 star reviews will.Lastly, the community will have an opportunity to look at several opinions about the same product. They can compare problems and weed out those that are either unreasonable or wouldn't effect them.I know when I book a vacation at a resort, I always do a ton of research in Trip Advisor. When I return, I usually post a review. I'd like to do the same here. AVSIM could incorporate their official reviews in to the process. They could say, "This is what we thought about product x, tell us what you think."They could limit reviews to non-commercial members and require that the member has over 100 posts in the forums to help weed out fake reviews and trolls. To keep things simple, reviews could be limited to a certain size.Although AVSIM is the flight sim bible, something like this would provide a valuable service to the community. With our increasing dependence on payware, a service like this would becomes even more important in the future.Just my $.02

[scoob 18]

I'd love to see AVSIM create a section just for customer reviews of products, developers and merchants - kind of like a Trip Advisor for flightsim stuff.

:( already exists right here at avsim -Reader's Product Reviews http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showforum=235--

[duckbilled 310]

I know, but it is not the same as having the entire community being able to make comments on the products they own and apply star ratings. It seems like everyone has opinions on products but only one person (if that) will write a review. I think if many people could make short (one paragraph) reviews along with a star rating, we would get a good idea about the products. Coupled with a detailed AVSIM review, I know it would work well.

:( already exists right here at avsim -Reader's Product Reviews http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showforum=235--

[Guest jonthedoors]

Sorry to say this, but the atrociousness of Wilco's service actually makes me laugh. Time and again I've read threads about their awful customer service.It does not do their reputation any good at all!I know i've certainly been persuaded not to buy their products, based on these complaints alone!

[gman! 1]

I'm not sure how many payware FS comapnies offer refunds of their products or even if PMDG, one of the best, offers one. In the real world, when you computer software from places like Best Buy, Circuit City etc, they don't offer refunds. I realized that the hard way when I uninstalled Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon from my HDD and went to Best Buy to get my money back, because I was having problems with it on my PC, and I uninstalled the WHOLE thing so I wouldn't be able to run it, and when I got to the customer service they said no returns on software. I was to naive back then to know, but I partly understand why. Now if companies had some kind of way to uninstall a game then print out proof or some kind of uninstallation receipt by a special installer so we could get a refund that would be awesome.

[Peter Clemenko 0]

Think of it like this, Wilco obviously isn't willing to cooperate, so they may as well change their name from Wilco to No-Go!On the other hand, I personally would almost always be hesitant to buy software without a demo, and this example just proves why, they won't refund you if you get shafted... Only real way to counter it is with a dispute using paypal or your credit card company, which is a good reason for these companies to offer demos and refunds rather than force someone to use legal channels and cost them a LOT more in the end in lawyers.

[Guest Longyear]

"If I buy an electrical product down the High Street and it doesn't perform, I would consider my chances are fairly high of getting a full refund so long as I asked for one sooner rather than later." There is a big difference between hardware and Software. You can return hardware and prove that you haven't kept it. I know of no way that you can return software and prove that you haven't kept a copy. That's why software retailers don't give refunds except in the cases i mentioned previously. It's also why software is excluded from the EU Directive. Until there's a way to prove that you haven't kept a copy then software will continue to be treated differently to hardware and you won't get refunds.

If you cannot come to an agreement with the vendor, on a refund, you always have the option of asking for a chargeback, from your credit card company. Your funds will be returned to your credit card and the vendor will need to pursue legal action to get the funds back (which they often won't if you had reasonable grounds for the refund).Davido.

[mgh 89]

If you cannot come to an agreement with the vendor, on a refund, you always have the option of asking for a chargeback, from your credit card company. Your funds will be returned to your credit card and the vendor will need to pursue legal action to get the funds back (which they often won't if you had reasonable grounds for the refund).Davido.

It isn't as simple as that. A credit card company won't give a chargeback just because you ask for one. Otherwise the process would be abused.The main requirement for chargeback is evidence that there has been a breach of contract. That's obvious if the supplier, for example, fails to deliver. It's not so obvious if the goods don't come up to your expectations.Generally, flight simulator add-ons are a "sale by description". That is, the decision to buy was based on the description provided by the supplier. To prove there has been a breach of contract it's necessary show that it doesn't comply with the description. Given, that even the most complex add-ons are described on a single web-page in fairly vague terms, then there's some difficulty demonstrating a specific breach.

[n4gix 4,947]

I'm not sure how many payware FS comapnies offer refunds of their products or even if PMDG, one of the best, offers one. In the real world, when you computer software from places like Best Buy, Circuit City etc, they don't offer refunds. I realized that the hard way when I uninstalled Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon from my HDD and went to Best Buy to get my money back, because I was having problems with it on my PC, and I uninstalled the WHOLE thing so I wouldn't be able to run it, and when I got to the customer service they said no returns on software. I was to naive back then to know, but I partly understand why. Now if companies had some kind of way to uninstall a game then print out proof or some kind of uninstallation receipt by a special installer so we could get a refund that would be awesome.

Actually, I have gotten refunds on software from Best Buy, Office Depot, etc. when I pointed out to them that I did NOT agree with the EULA, and that the EULA was inside the box......and worse, was on the CD media as a part of the installation routine!Obviously I could not possibly :( read the EULA without opening the silly box and running the installer! :(

[duckbilled 310]

Actually, I have gotten refunds on software from Best Buy, Office Depot, etc. when I pointed out to them that I did NOT agree with the EULA, and that the EULA was inside the box......and worse, was on the CD media as a part of the installation routine!Obviously I could not possibly :( read the EULA without opening the silly box and running the installer! :(

Good idea!