Flight dynamics discovery

[Guest]

I uploaded a 172 R or SP panel last Fall and intended to put together an airfile package for it. Ron Freimuth and I kicked files back and forth for a while and Ron did some great things with the engine. I never could get the plane to feel right however. I compared all the numbers with the FS2K one which flies beautifully and is a very good model of my real plane. No matter what I did, the FS2000 plane just sucked dead toads. It would remain stuck to the runway and not lift off until 75 or 80 knots. It wouldn

[Avcomware 1]

Hi, Roger. Many thanks for all your effort. I can not wait to give it a try. Where and When? TV

[Guest ben_]

RogerYour friendly, free and knowledgable contributions make this forum a very pleasant place to visit.Thank youBenNB: Not to mention your AIR files for downloading :-)

[Guest Ron Freimuth]

>Roger Long:>I uploaded a 172 R or SP panel last Fall and intended to put >together an airfile package for it. Ron Freimuth and I >kicked files back and forth for a while and Ron did some >great things with the engine. I never could get the plane >to feel right however. I compared all the numbers with the >FS2K one which flies beautifully and is a very good model of >my real plane. No matter what I did, the FS2000 plane just >sucked dead toads. It would remain stuck to the runway and >not lift off until 75 or 80 knots. It wouldn

[LuisFelizTirado 33]

Many thanks to both of you for this very important information.Best regards.Luis

[Guest]

Ron,Thanks for expanding. I'm sure you did have it right in your version. Those little "-" are very hard to see and, when trying to merge features of your files and mine, I overlooked it. Changing the two angles together so that the difference is kept constant seems to tip the visual model without effecting performance in the air. On the ground, there is a tremendoud performance difference because the landing gear determines the wing angle of attack. My plane was rolling at negatative attack angle with the tail holding the nose down until it gained enough speed for the elevators to overpower everything. Then, it popped into the air.I should have looked for this simple thing first. I thought it was just way nose heavy due to a weight datum point reference.I hadn't thought that the cfg file might just reverse what ever is in the air file. I'll have to go back and look. I've been doing all this tweaking without changing the air file. Nice to hear from you. I hope you'll reconsider getting back into MSFS. This sim can still provide a lot of reality. I think you've taken the state of the art way beyond anyone else.

[Guest lawyerpilot]

Ron, I don't know if you remember me emailing you to ask about excessive use of trim about a year and a half ago as I trained in a 1979 172N , with a follow up email of excitement about my first solo, but your original 172 with the bugs program in FS2k (don't remember the name), helped me out immensely!!! I was always concerned that I was relying too heavily on the trim wheel, instead of using the proper procedure, pitch, power, trim. This was mainly b/c my CFI kept suggesting that I was too "fidgety". Well, after firing him for wasting my time....(he was going through a divorce and it took us over 3 months to log 20 hours in the evenings after he got off of work), I began with a new instructor who, as best I can describe it, was all business. He recognized instantaneously that I was more than ready for my cross countrys, etc. And we proceeded to crank out the remainder of my license in under 3 weeks. I got my PPL in 40.9 hours and I can honestly say that flying around your flight model saved me A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY!!!!! Furthermore, for those of you who read Geofa's posts (one of which he talked about the fact that he needed to brush up on the 182 for the CAP, and FS2k2 really saved him time and money) and want to plunge into real aviation, it is true. Years of flying the simulator saved me thousands of dollars!!! And that's coming from my CFI! I flew Roger's flight model over and over during my PPL training, and sure enough, last July I got my PPL in .9 over the minimum 40 hours and soloed at 8 hours at a Part 61 school (so it wasn't a "crank you out with minimum time" school -141, it was a get your certificate when you have proficiency school). I am now working on the Instrument, Multi(at the end of this month), and commercial. To anyone that is looking for a great airfile, Ron's for FS2k2 is great!, But, keep an eye out for Roger's, if it can be integrated into the FS2k2 VC!!! B/c the only downside that I saw in 2k was the lack of peripheral vision, which of course we have solved now with the VC!!! I refuse to fly the 2d panels anymore, except for IFR work occasionally. Although, the clarity of my panels seems more than acceptable to use them for IFR work. So, in conclusion, we will have the best training file out there plus realistic landing and pattern perspectives in the VC!!!!Roger you have a done a great deal to advance the training realm of the hobby. I don't just like flying around in eye candy! And you ahve solved that, along with the great Rob Young and Ron Freimuth.Thanks again!!!Christopher BraunP4 1.8768 ram 80 gig hardriveVisiontek Ti4 4600CH yoke/pedals19" inch monitor-Soundblaster PCI 512Win XPPrivate PilotAOPALawyerPilots Bar AssociationNTSB Bar AsssociationPIC- Warrior, Archer, 172N-SP, Aztec, Seneca, Malibu SIC (rarely!)- Conquest, 421 Ram, King Air c90"Men without dreams are never free, twas thus this way and thus will ever be."

[Guest lawyerpilot]

Sorry about that typo, had panels on my mind apparently.CMB

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Roger,Ironically, I just found this out a couple weeks ago. Annoying, isn't it? ;-)One other thing I've seen with 2K2 is that all the trims reset when loading another aircraft or reloading the current one. This makes it really easy to fix broken aircraft.cfg files. I load up a model - say a 767 - then trim it to level flight, ten reload it, and BAM! nose dive. I change the aircraft.cfg file to fix the horizontal stabilizer, reload, and it now flies right.I originally thought having the trims all reset was a problem until I realized the potential to fix things. ;-) Then I saw the negative negative. ;-) Makes life a lot easier now to get things flying right. I just automatically change the HS incidence when I convert from 2K to 2K2.But then again, I still to this day have problems knowing whether to use plus or minus for wing incidence and twist! :-lol

[barryward12345 0]

Hmmm -- I am a little mystified why you would want to change aircraft in mid-flight anyway? Is this a common practice amongst flight simmers? -- and why?Thanks Barry

[Guest]

It's very common among aircraft tweakers. You switch to another aircraft, minimize the window, make your changes to the cfg, air file, or panel, go back to FS and reselect your airplane. The changes will now be incorporated without having to wait for FS to restart. Now that the situations take long enought to go out for a bite to eat while the textures and elevations are loading, this is especially useful.

[Guest]

Say, you're right. Each degree of incidence change makes a 2.76 knot change in speed for the 172; even when the relative angle between wing and tail remains the same.

[LAdamson 240]

> To anyone that is >looking for a great airfile, Ron's for FS2k2 is great!, Is there a "Ron's" airfile out there? I hear nearly everybody want's one !! I also heard the same over at Flightsim com. Wouldn't be that 172 file that's "temporarily" not available ( but I have) would it? :)Sure would be nice to tell everybody where to get it.......... instead of they CAN'T have it!! Ron??????????L.Adamson

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Ditto.If I'm only testing air file tweaks, I change FS to a window, make the fixes, then I just click Select Aircraft/OK in FS and it reloads instantly and I'm set for testing.That forever and a day thing to load textures over and over and over is ridiculous, so I avoid it like the plague.

[Guest]

Wow... 40.9 hours! That's awesome... You must have been flying every day with the new instructor. I've never met anyone who did it that fast. I've got 76 hours am I'm STILL not there! :) Of course, 9/11 and B-class shelf area/winter had a lot to do with that.