Help! VTP land class #252 problem

[arno 1]

But what does the SCASM source say? Is the SurfaceType command there? Otherwise you might want to try my Bumpy tool, that should make things smooth.I can't imagine that the resample BGL would interfere with it, because the section 9 scenery is always drawn on top of the mesh.EDIT: Just read Dicks reply. He indicates that resample smooths automatically, that would explain it. This means that you have NOT added a SurfaceType command with Airport. Try my tool I would say :D.Arno

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[Guest]

I'll write some lines to make things clear, most of it has already been said, so this will party be a "rehersion".Of course the ground textures should become more blurry and unaccure when changed to MEDIUM. There's no doubt about that, and nobody has claimed against it either. The problem is just, as Dick mentioned, that the VTPs seem to degrade MORE than the Resample-ground, as the Resample-ground aligns perfectly even when being in MEDIUM mode, the only difference then is that the sharpness of course isn't the same as on HIGH.I also tried to make mip maps while having the textures as DXT1, and then shift to 8bit. And as Tatu said, it makes no difference.This is kind of a dilemma. The 8bit VTP-ground doesn't kill lakes etc. made with LWMDraw, and it gives the possibility to add transparency to the bitmaps. The cons are: inaccurate mip mapping, overall texture quality a bit worse than dxt1/resample ground and bumpy effect.Arno, Dick: I suppose it is the whole Resample-ground that makes the smoothness then. That would explain why the Airport tags for smoothness haven't been working on any other airfield for me (I've had to use invisible runways). :)Does Arno's bumpy affect autogen? Do I have to be careful when using it, so that the loss of autogen is as small as possible? I once also found an API-macro that was said to work as a "smoother". What about that? In case it is killing autogen, would it be theoretically possible to customly insert a dummy RotatedCall in it and still not lose the smoothness?/Sebastian

[arno 1]

Hi Sebastian,Maybe you have seen the other post about finding out what effects autogen? At this moment I would say the SurfaceType does not effect autogen, but maybe we must wait for the final conclusion from that post :).My Bumpy tools reads the SCA file you made with Airport (or a program like that) and then creates the smoothing code for polygons and lines covered with the texture(s) you select. So compared to most other solutions, this means that only your apron/taxiway will be smooth and not also all the grass around it.I can't judge on the API you mention, without having seen the source code of it.I haven't test the SurfaceType code with any dummy commands, but I think it does not affect autogen. Just give it a try I would say, then we know for sure :).Arno

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Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

[Guest]

Hi again,The latest news:The problem might just not be in 8bit textures or mip mapping. I've tried to use the same new VTP-ground with DXT1-textures (the original ones), and the only thing I had to do to them was flip them. Result: the same inaccuracy was there during MEDIUM mode. So I think we can forget about the mip mapping then(?). Instead, can it be something that happens during the flip, or is it still in the VTP-bgl?The mystery tightens... :)

[rhumbaflappy 113]

Hi Sebastian.What would happen if you flipped the textures and used the resample-placement BGL? They'll all display flipped, but you may still be able to see if they align within the east-west rows, with the texture sizing lessened.If these are misaligned, then it would be the flipping process we are using... the paint program that flips them. If they align, then the sim uses a separate routine, for handling texture sizing, for VTPs and CUSTOM. ( I'm guessing the routines are different ).Dick

[arno 1]

In that case I think it is the difference in how the textures are handled between the VTP and the resample BGL. But that would mean that there is no easy solution for it....Arno

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Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

[Guest]

We might just edit the 128*128 mip by hand and import it after that.

[Guest]

Just wanted you to know that the hand-editing of the 128*128 sized mipmaps works great. Just extracting the mipmaps in ImageTool and the importing the 128*128 size again. So the big 256*256 one is not touched. Perhaps not the most fun thing to do if there are lots of mips to edit this way, but at least it gives a result that works.We thank you.../Sebastian

[arno 1]

Good to know it is solved now.Already tried to smoothen the bumps?Arno

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Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

[rhumbaflappy 113]

Hi Sebastian.Are you saying that the 128x128 mip is misaligned by imagetool?... and it can be altered somehow, then imported back?Or is the VTP display not showing the 128x128 mip correctly, and you are trying to compensate for it?========Also, have you tried an unmipped texture?========I guess the real mystery to me is why you'd want to lower the terrain texture sizing in the first place.If it's because your computer system cannot display 256x256 terrain textures, then it's probably time for a videocard or motherboard/memory upgrade. And I don't mean that to be rude, but it does seem a waste of time trying to force the sim, or the textures, to do something they weren't really meant to do... especially if it's going to be so labor intensive to fix. And especially, if a bit of money, invested in the computer, can add so much quality to the visual display, and add so much to the enjoyment of the sim.Dick

[Guest]

>Hi Sebastian. >>What would happen if you flipped the textures and used the >resample-placement BGL? They'll all display flipped, but you >may still be able to see if they align within the east-west >rows, with the texture sizing lessened. >>If these are misaligned, then it would be the flipping >process we are using... the paint program that flips them. >>If they align, then the sim uses a separate routine, for >handling texture sizing, for VTPs and CUSTOM. ( I'm guessing >the routines are different ). >>Dick I can try that some other time, right now I'm so into the thing I'm doing I'm afraid I won't be able to get back if I take a break... :)

[Guest]

Arno, Dick:I just downloaded Bumpy, will try it later on tonight.Dick, I do not know why, but the 128*128 mipmap isn't showing the way it should in FS. Looking at the 128*128 mipmap in PSP, it seems just ok. What I've done, is that I extract the mipmap which ImageTool has created (all the time 8bit, forget about dxt1 for now). I open up that 128*128 in PSP, and just move the crucial areas (they are in the middle of the bitmaps, anyway, it is not a question about moving whole bitmaps. When I'm ready editing, I just import it from "add mipmap" in ImageTool's menu, and save it all. Then it works well in both HIGH (never touched the main bitmap), and also in MEDIUM. I see no point in editing the rest of the mipmaps, they are so small that editing this way would be a crazy thing. Even the accuracy by moving some parts of the 128*128 texture is not really the best, as it sometimes feels it would be best if one could move it 1,5 pixels instead of 1 or 2. :)

[Guest]

Hi!>======== >>Also, have you tried an unmipped texture? >>======== FS crashes with textures that have no mipmaps. 8-bit, 32-bit, DXT1 without mipmaps, no way.I don't know what to say...I am also working on an airport and did "resampled" ground for it. (I think I am going to convert it to VTP) It was bumpy before smoothened it, so Resample bgls do not smoothen the ground.Greetings,Tatu

[arno 1]

I think it's the other way around (also noted before in this thread). Resample BGLs do smoothen the ground, but VTP does not. I don't think that's a problem (ussually you don't want the entire area smooth). There are other way of solving these smoothen problems.Arno

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