Inaccurate coast/lake...imposible to fix?

[Guest PaulL01]

I thought higher mesh overides lower mesh, this must be a bad Coast then?How can this be fixed???Default scenery using very good 10m mesh:http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/iron1default.jpgThe problem shows up badly when the accuratly placed photoreal scenery is shown:http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/IrondPhot.jpgFrom the few topics I have found on this issue it looks as though This is not fixable!Please tell me there is way!?!?

[arno 1]

I assume you mean the problem with the flatten of the default water still being there and ruining your photo scenery? As far as I know that can not be fixed at the moment :(.

[Guest PaulL01]

>I assume you mean the problem with the flatten of the default>water still being there and ruining your photo scenery? As far>as I know that can not be fixed at the moment :(.Hi Arno,Would they do this with a flatten? The area is Irondiquoit bay off of lake Ontario:http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/ironwayup.jpg

[Holger 0]

Hi Paul and Arno,yes, what Arno was referring to are the default flatten files that ensure that water is flat; they override any mesh, default or add-on.However, see my answer here:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...g_id=1329&page=Cheers, Holger

[rhumbaflappy 113]

Hi Paul.The watermask polys have this flattening that won't go away. The cure, as far as we know, is to replace the HP9xxxx0.bgl that corresponds to the LOD5 area.Some replacement ideas are to decompile the HP BGLs, change all elevations to -9999 which is a null value, and recompiling, giving us mesh-clinging water. Small problem areas could then have SCASM Area16n flattens to smooth the water.We can't currently decompile FS9 HP files ( they are slightly different ), but we can decompile the FS2002 files, edit and combine the data to fit the LOD5 scheme of FS9, and recompile them.Another idea, for the US in particular, is to make better water polys using TIGER data. That gives pretty accurate water. That requires a GIS program and a lot of patience. Chris Wright has been working on a program to autodraw polys from georeferenced bitmaps. Christian Fumey has been playing with autodrawing by allowing the use of a simple text file containing latitude-longitude coordinates ( with some success ).Actually a combo of the 2 ideas might be best... replacing the default water with better shapes that are also mesh clinging. If the mesh is good, the improved water should fall into the depressions, and if the photoreal is properly georeferenced and projected, it's water should be fine.Microsoft is aware of this problem, but I don't think the Terrain SDK will reveal a cure. After all, MS isn't too concerned with reworking scenery as they don't do it!Meanwhile, I believe the offending BGLs are HP927160.bgl and HL927160.bgl ( for the water and the shorelines ). Renaming these as "HP927160.bgl.OLD" and "HL927160.bgl.OLD" will make the whole LOD5 area around Rochester as dry as a bone. They should be in:C:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesFlight Simulator 9SceneryNamcSceneryThis should make the flattens of the water disappear. Default roads and streams also have flattening that can be dealt with in several ways.Dick

[Guest PaulL01]

Hi Dick,>Hi Paul.>>The watermask polys have this flattening that won't go away.>The cure, as far as we know, is to replace the HP9xxxx0.bgl>that corresponds to the LOD5 area.>>Some replacement ideas are to decompile the HP BGLs, change>all elevations to -9999 which is a null value, and>recompiling, giving us mesh-clinging water. Small problem>areas could then have SCASM Area16n flattens to smooth the>water.>>We can't currently decompile FS9 HP files ( they are slightly>different ), but we can decompile the FS2002 files, edit and>combine the data to fit the LOD5 scheme of FS9, and recompile>them.>>Another idea, for the US in particular, is to make better>water polys using TIGER data. That gives pretty accurate>water. That requires a GIS program and a lot of patience.>Chris Wright has been working on a program to autodraw polys>from georeferenced bitmaps. Christian Fumey has been playing>with autodrawing by allowing the use of a simple text file>containing latitude-longitude coordinates ( with some success>).Are you saying that a water poly will overide the flatten?I have Arcview and Globalmapper, what else might I need?>Actually a combo of the 2 ideas might be best... replacing the>default water with better shapes that are also mesh clinging.>If the mesh is good, the improved water should fall into the>depressions, and if the photoreal is properly georeferenced>and projected, it's water should be fine.>Meanwhile, I believe the offending BGLs are HP927160.bgl and>HL927160.bgl ( for the water and the shorelines ). Renaming>these as "HP927160.bgl.OLD" and "HL927160.bgl.OLD" will make>the whole LOD5 area around Rochester as dry as a bone. They>should be in:>>C:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesFlight Simulator>9SceneryNamcScenery>>This should make the flattens of the water disappear. Default>roads and streams also have flattening that can be dealt with>in several ways.>DickYou Folks...the Knowledge base here with all of you combined is probably more than what the SDKs will ever be!Thanks for the help,BTW, how'd you figure out what bgls I needed so quick?

[Guest PaulL01]

Hi Holger,Where are some of these tools I am reading about? They don't show up in a library search here. :(Thank you for all the info, what a gold mine of info it is too bad that avsim doesn't allow for some pics to stay archived as all those great threads are missing them.

[Guest PaulL01]

>Meanwhile, I believe the offending BGLs are HP927160.bgl and >HL927160.bgl ( for the water and the shorelines ). Renaming these >as "HP927160.bgl.OLD" and "HL927160.bgl.OLD" will make the whole >LOD5 area around Rochester as dry as a bone. Wow! This looks so great without the offending water problems!If I could only do the whole LOD5 area the water problems would be solved! :-roll Sure is a step price to have to pay, what a pain! :(http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/image...dflatgonesm.jpgThanks again Dick! (please read my other reply to you above)

[Holger 0]

Hi Paul:here's a thread that describes the FS9 file naming convention: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchNot sure which specific tools you're looking for, so here are some external links:LocBGL, by Chuck Dome, for identifying the FS2002 LWM files. Available at http://www.scenery.org/design.htm.BGL Analyze 3.1, by Winfried Orthmann, for decompiling FS2002 and (some) FS9 .bgl files. Available at http://www.scenery.org/design.htmFSTflatten, by Steve Greenwood, at http://www.fs-traveler.com/flatten.shtml (the link is for the old version; the new version (preview here: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=15523&page=) will be available in a few days at the same site.LWMViewer, by Jim Keir: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=15650&page=Lake flatten tutorial by Gilles and yours truly, as soon as people stop updating their utilities - it's a bl**dy moving target ;-) If you can't wait, let me know and I can email you a draft. Hope I've got them all.Cheers, HolgerBTW, those preview images look spectacular - great color match and blending, not to mention the detail!!! One question: you mention that you rotated your imagery; does that mean you didn't have to use a GIS or Global Mapper for transforming from the source projection to lat/long WGS84? If so, other people might be interested in hearing how you did that. I have my GIS software but frequently receive questions about whether there are no-cost procedures for doing this.

[Guest PaulL01]

>Hi Paul:>>here's a thread that describes the FS9 file naming convention:>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=search>>Not sure which specific tools you're looking for, so here are>some external links:>>>LocBGL, by Chuck Dome, for identifying the FS2002 LWM files. >Available at http://www.scenery.org/design.htm.>>BGL Analyze 3.1, by Winfried Orthmann, for decompiling FS2002>and (some) FS9 .bgl files. Available at>http://www.scenery.org/design.htm>>FSTflatten, by Steve Greenwood, at>http://www.fs-traveler.com/flatten.shtml (the link is for the>old version; the new version (preview here:>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=15523&page=)>will be available in a few days at the same site.>>LWMViewer, by Jim Keir:>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=15650&page=>>Lake flatten tutorial by Gilles and yours truly, as soon as>people stop updating their utilities - it's a bl**dy moving>target ;-) If you can't wait, let me know and I can email you>a draft. >>Hope I've got them all.>>Cheers, Holger>>>BTW, those preview images look spectacular - great color match>and blending, not to mention the detail!!! One question: you>mention that you rotated your imagery; does that mean you>didn't have to use a GIS or Global Mapper for transforming>from the source projection to lat/long WGS84? If so, other>people might be interested in hearing how you did that. I have>my GIS software but frequently receive questions about whether>there are no-cost procedures for doing this. >Thanks for the links, looks like I have much more work ahead of me than I thought. (before you know it FS10 will be...)Well... I used Globalmapper to export most data and though I used WGS84 it was still off! I ended up having to rotate that image clockwise exactly half a degree (0.5) Not sure why that was, but now everything including the main airport (KROC) is close to spot on and thats what matters most to me.How to find out how much rotaion was needed?After the initial Bgl was done (with actual LAt/LON) with slices and scenery installed I simply made reference marks in the data near the top left and bottom right corners got the exact coordinates (ref-Lat/lon) of those from the GIS, fired up FS and position the cesna at those exact coordinates and snapped some pics to see how far off the thing were....hmmm so the ref mark is 600ft or so to the west of where it should be...I snapped a screen shot from spot plane view showing where the cesna was in relation to the ref-lat/lon. Now going into Photoshop I pulled two corner selections from the original data (TopL/BottomR)and marked where the cesna >was:)

[rhumbaflappy 113]

Hi Paul.SecretTool:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/49016.jpgThe QMID7 location is for use with TMFViewer. The format is always xx0????0.bgl where the ???? are the QMID7 coordinates, and the xx is the type prefix ( HP for HydroPolys, HL for HydroLines ).The tool will be available in a week or so.Dick

[Guest PaulL01]

>Lake flatten tutorial by Gilles and yours truly, as soon as>people stop updating their utilities - it's a bl**dy moving>target ;-) If you can't wait, let me know and I can email you>a draft.Holger,Been a rough day, think I'm ready for that draft! :)Thank you!pleatzaw@frontiernet.net

[Holger 0]

Hi Paul:I don't think this kind of draft is what I would be reaching for after a rough day but it's on its way, as requested.:-beerchug Cheers, Holger