Are we playing a Dangerous Game? Freeware

[Guest DaveKDEN]

Peter,I'm not sure how, but this has now turned into a freedom of speech post?????? Holy cow, lets get real here folks! I mentioned nothing about about stifling freedom of speech. My main point is and always will be - crticism of freeware offerings tends to discourage freeware authors. Nothing more and nothing less. Now, I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to see anymore freeware authors driven away from freeware contribution. The net result of inconsiderate ungrateful posts against freeware offerings is less (or no more) freeware contributions by those authors. When it comes to freeware works I'll just quote the following, "if you can't say anything nice, you shouldn't say anything at all."DaveTHIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FREEDOM OF SPEECH. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH COMMON COURTESY.

[BobK 0]

"...intolerant of polite positive criticism..." Hmm. I wonder how much of some of those threads you've actually read? Besides, it's rarely just one or two posts that cause the problems - it's a "build up" of them, over time.And IS it just Freeware with this "problem"? Where is the "PSS Unleashed" Forum, and why is their Support Forum moderated? In case you've missed it, there are a lot of demanding and rude people out there. There are also those who DELIBERATELY try to stir up trouble - "Trolls", we all call them.Now, do people sometimes overreact? Sure - we're all human, right? Plus, bringing these things back up for debate all the time, does nothing but add more fuel to the fire....

[Shaka 2]

>>I have noticed an intolerance which seems to be growing >towards any freedom of speech where it involves Freeware. >>I think there is a serious danger that any comments which >are not glowing praise of a freeware product will become >unacceptable in the forum and stifle the whole basis of what >a forum is about. This has nothing to do with free speech. No one is censoring anyone's posts. Besides, if someone wants to post a message being critical of a freeware author, then shouldn't other people be able to post to defend that author?This isn't about not making negative comments about freeware products. I think that if the critism is constructive, then it is welcome. If you notice a problem with Mike Stone's aircraft, why don't you email him? Instead, a post was made in a forum (actually, 2 posts), that wasn't even particularly specific.This isn't the first time this has come up. People who design freeware products need to be encouraged. There was a huge thread a month or so ago started by a designer who was explaining why hw wasn't going to bother anymore. It came down to the pointless critism he received in the forums.So go ahead, and exercise your "free speech". I will exercise mine too.- Martin

[Guest]

MartinExactly! You are referring to one episode where a freeware developer dropped out. Remember the postings around that episode.Read Leon Medados post in the thread in question where he states that he rarely bothers to make comments about freeware faults any more either though E mail or in the forums for fear of being shot down.I do E mail personally :-)And yes I do hold out to the fact that there has been a change in attitude.It used to be the case that people would make suggestions, would offer to help would have long discussions about a certain aspect of an aircraft and often come up with a solution not thought of.Now we very rarely have any positive criticism any more and any postings that are made are defensive as in the two around this episode almost to the point of being cringy for fear of being jumped on by overdefensive and touchy individuals.Hmmmmm shame really as positive, constructive criticism and discussion was healthy.Now its turning into an unwritten law of behaviour that if you dont heap praise dont heap anything.Peter

[Guest]

Hi Peter,Although I agree mostly with your points, lets not forget that every post made does not live in a vacuum in and of itself. There is a history attached to every post regardless of topic that influences the reaction to like posts on that particular topic for quite some time. Your arguments assume that individual reactions to "constructive criticism" and "negative criticism" should be taken in the context of the one particular post being read. However, as we know, human nature doesn't work this way. The influences of past discussions on a topic most assuredly color our reactions to future discussions on the topic.What I'm trying to say, but more concisely is: Right or wrong, until enough time passes to ease the barrage of anti-freeware comments like there was a few months back (and still break out like a rash every once in a while), expect a bit of lopsided feelings to emerge when a work is being discussed. Its simply unavoidable and is truly part of our nature. The polite and constructive posts are almost always in the midst of the impolite and negative posts: separating the flow is possible (and encouraged), but a difficult task for some.Simply: lets keep that in mind as well.Take care,http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

[Hornit 3]

I have to agree with you Peter. Ive been involved with a LOT of other flight simulations, add-ons,mods, etc. Anytime someone has an issue and can provide constructive criticism in an adult and polite manner I had no problem with it. It's how we fixed a lot of bugs in things I worked on...freeware to boot! We usually did it in open forums too! If thats the trend than its not a good one as everyone benefits when there is a free and open flow of opinions and ideas. Just treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Some of us don't mind the critics I guess.Hornit

[Guest]

>FOLKS, THERE'S SIMPLY NO EXCUSE IN THE WORLD TO CRITIQUE SOMEONE WHO'S GIVING US WONDERFUL ADD-ONS FOR FREE! My motto with freeware has been and always will be "if you don't like - delete."Daniel, while I don't think your post was particularly harsh, If you think designing is so easy, why not give it a go for yourself. That way the only person you'll have to complain to is yourself.

[Hornit 3]

please ignore this post

[Guest]

>I have to agree with you Peter. Ive been involved with a LOT of other flight simulations, add-ons,mods, etc. Anytime someone has an issue and can provide constructive criticism in an adult and polite manner I had no problem with it. It's how we fixed a lot of bugs in things I worked on...freeware to boot! We usually did it in open forums too! If thats the trend than its not a good one as everyone benefits when there is a free and open flow of opinions and ideas. Just treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Some of us don't mind the critics I guess.

[Hornit 3]

>Hornit >>I used to relish the critic(and still do) and it was always >politeful and helpful if not always correct. >>Please pull it apart, please make suggestions, any good >ideas, improved the breed. >>Now its dont upset the guy, make any comments and wait for >the ton of bricks to fall on your head. >>Peter Roger that! I hadn't read ANY of this ongoing debate when I posted my thoughts on Mike's Meridian..now Im a bit chagrined to say the least, but I would still do it given the same circumstances. It doesn't mean I value his contributions..or anyone's for that matter....any less. Hornit

[Guest DaveKDEN]

Hey Peter,All's I gotta say is the tendency (and I've seen it before) is to discourage freeware developers. There are numerous reasons why I'm no longer currently involved in freeware panel developement, but it's minimally due to some rather harsh criticism received via e-mail regarding some of my work. My typical response was essentially "go scrxw yourself (in a polite way)." You see, I simply don't need the frustration of dealing with the (few) inconsiderate jerks out there. Now, I personally find it rather easy to hold off on criticism of others work. I download, compare, keep, or delete depending on whether I like the file or not. If I find a particular developer that consistently produces work I find to be sub-standard, I don't bother downloading his work anymore. However, that's very rare and it doesn't mean there are others out there who enjoy his work immensly. If I decided to harp on his work (even in a polite fashion), I might do so to the point he decides to no longer contribute. Who have I helped then? The add-on developement process is a learning process. Why not give a guy the chance to improve things on his own without discouraging him through criticism? Now, much of the crticism I see is purely unwarrented from individuals who really haven't a clue. Now, that criticism might not be written or meant in a harsh way, but the end result is the same.Dave

[Guest Twister]

Hi,What would you say if we changed the words "positive criticism" to "friendly suggestions" ? Yes, we need to remain courteous and polite, yes, we need to keep in mind that a lot of time and effort went into the design of freeware packages.Nobody wants (I hope) to offend others on this forum. But let's pretend for a second that Peter Sidoli releases a brand new Lockheed Constellation add-on for free (I wish...), and let's pretend that I accumulated 5000 hours on that bird (in my dreams...).Now, would that be OK to post a message on the forum saying:"Hi Peter, I love your Connie, from my personal experience, the aircraft does not achieve a similar rate of climb...do you think you could eventually tweak that detail?"Would that be considered insulting? if some of you think it does, we've got a serious problem here.This, by the way, has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has a lot to do with the very essence of this forum. We are trying to help each other out, make occasional positive comments and even give a bit of advice once in a while...what could be wrong with that?Twister

[Toys_R_Us 0]

I posted a suggestion for an freeware aircraft that would improve it for a version update or patch. To me it was a great idea and major improvement. It was done with diplomacy and grace.Not only did the author not answer my post (while he answered others), but it was taken as though I trampled on halo'd ground by others.Although my idea was, and is, a good one, I will not "tip- toe" on that kind of ground again. What do I care ???!!!It was only a great suggestion, and something I would have done if I was the original author .I have found in life, that usually when I am thinking a certain way, many others are quietly thinking the same, and that's why I made the origianl post in the first place.Regards...Bob (Lecanto, Fl)AMD, Athlon XP, 1800+MSI, K7T266 XP ProPC 2100 DDR, 1024 MBXP, Home Edition Elsa GLadiac 920, GF3/64Mb andPNY, Verto nVidia TNT 2-M64/32WD, 100 MB, 7200, Ultra 100Sound Blaster, Audigy MP3+CH Prod, VPP Yoke - Sound CardCH Prod, Pedals - Sound Card

[Guest]

Peter, review your writing, because its general in nature, the reader is left to assume what or who you are talking about. Thus Mike assumes its him, I assume its me, and joe blow assumes its him.Truth is likely that you have a small sample size of data you are really talking about, and extrapolating it to the general case. This probably is not valid.I recommend you post specific names and instances.Bob BernsteinEdmonds, Wa.

[Guest]

I feel a lenghty explanation concerning the inspiration of the said post is in order. :-outta A couple of days after the Falcon 50 was released I posted that it's Virtual Cockpit view didn't run well on my machine. At that time I had examined the aircraft and came to the conclusion that a lot more could have been done to improve it's performance on lower-end machines.I'll admit that the wording of my subject and my initial statement which blamed the developers for not cautioning potential users of steep system requirements was harsh. The rest of the post read in the usual "Your work is great but..." fashion. I realize now that perhaps I was being naive to have buried the constructive part of the criticism in such a manner. I didn't quite expect what happened afterwards.Except for a couple or so posts that more or less agreed with me, most of the replies were in stark defense of the Falcon. Some of these were harsher than the words used against freeware products recently. While I was busy defending my post and experimenting on ways to improve the Falcon's performance, entire threads erupted in praise of the Falcon and condemning anybody who spoke a word against it. whether these were the result of my post, other posts, or the general tone of the forum during that time, I do not know.Eventually I had found my trumpcard. I managed to improve the Falcon 50's VC performance. I posted the results and a few people were intrigued. I explained my methodology in greater detail and during the course of that someone suggested I personally inform the author of my efforts. Due to some misunderstanding (most likely a clash of cultures and preferences) with the author my modifications will never be released, but their methodology can still be seen in the archives of this forum.I used my trumpcard to aide in the defense of the first thread, creating a premise that while I didn't enjoy the Falcon in it's initial release form, I managed to find a way to improve it to my liking. The thread soon died down and I somewhat joined the ranks of the angels serving in the Falcon's glory.Throughout that whole ordeal I learned just how sensitive and defensive some of us could really get. I learned that such potentially volatile messages should be toned down if they can't be avoided. When the issue reappeared I thought I'd share my thoughts on it:http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID8/3526.html#10-Leon Medado