adding scenery causes G3D.dll error after shutdown

[Guest Charlie Hall]

I am hoping there might be a simple answer to my problem.I am trying my first attempt at making additional scenery and want to add many FS2000 style advanced buildings to a couple of existing scenery add ons using the latest updated Airport For Windows program.However after adding about 100 buildings (I hope to be adding many more than that but no point if the scenery is going to be unusable) I get an error message after shutting down FS9. The module named is G3D.dll which I understand is supposed to be indicating a graphics problem, however I don't see much relationship with added buildings (that are not even in view before shutting down FS9) and graphics. If I remove either of the other addon sceneries the error does not occur, nor does it ever occur while FS9 is running. There are no bad frame hits with the buildings added so far. I look forward to any suggestions but I suppose my first question should be how many addditional scenery objects are reasonably expected to not cause problems or error messages? I am guessing in round figures the current amount of added objects in total including the other sceneries for the area is around 3000.

[arno 1]

Hi Charlie,I don't think there is a certain limit that should cause such an error. Especially the advanced buildings are rather simple, so they should not give too much of an additional load.I have no idea what causes the crash. Maybe you can post your SCASM source or BGL file here, so others can test it as well and have a look to see if the source is correct?Another idea would be to use the Fs2004 style XML buildings. When you are working for Fs2004 these are better I think and maybe don't have the same problem.

[Guest Charlie Hall]

Hi Arno, Thank you very much for your reply. I also did not think there should be an upper limit except where it affects frame rates. Someone else who tried some of my earlier files had the same error message as me so that is why I thought it was a scenery problem. I would like to post the scasm file but I'm not sure how to do it if I should post it as a link for example, however I could probably paste the text in the message but I think the list may be quite long. I don't know how to find the FS2004 buildings and would consider using them if I knew how. Will they be accessible if I try SceneGenX? I have not seen them in the Runway12 program. EDIT. I just tried flying from a nearby airport (about 20 miles away) in a fast plane pitched up around 40 degrees, overflew the area and then shut down FS9 and still got the error message afterwards. At no time was the populated scenery visible. If I start FS9 at this same airport then immediately shut down FS9 I do not get the error message. So it seems like overflying the area is the cause whether the scenery is visible or not.

[Guest Charlie Hall]

Hi again Arno, I couldn't edit the last message so I am posting additional information and questions in this message. I now have found that one of the addon sceneries also use the FS2000 style advanced buildings. I have noticed that some or all of these buildings and also my buildings show up as grey shapes to begin with and the textures appear only when the plane is much closer. Regardless of the individual distances from the plane to each building it seems that several textures appear at the same moment and that the triggering seems to involve large groups of FS2000 style buildings but not all. Which now makes me wonder if the defined overall area could be wrong in one of the sceneries, however I don't know if the area is automatically defined when the file is recompiled? Or maybe some other setting in a file is wrong? I also wonder what might be the effect if for example there is not the correct FS2004 header (I think it should be something like 0x800 ?) in a file?

[arno 1]

Hi Charlie,You should be able to upload a file with your message. But if you can not figure that out, you can also email it to me. Just send it to arno AT scenerydesign.orgFor the generic buildings in the Fs2004 style SGX is the best tool to use at the moment. But I am also in the progress of adding them to my own ObPlacer XML tool.I don't think a different header would causes these problems. Due to the backwards compatibility Fs2004 should still be able to read older BGL files without trouble. But it could be that there is a bug in the backwards compatibility of these buildings. But as I haven't used the Fs2000 style buildings a lot I can't tell you that.

[Guest Charlie Hall]

Hi Arno,I will email the .sca file to you if that's OK with you. I looked at SGX last night and seems like the selection of buildings is exactly the same! However I realise the big difference is the xml. For that reason alone I will look at redoing what I have done so far.

[arno 1]

Hi Charlie,I tried your SCA file (made a BGL out of it) and here it does not give any trouble. When I quit FS while in the area of the buildings nothing strange happens.Which version of FS are you using? Have you installed Fs9.1 for example.

[Guest Charlie Hall]

Hi Arno,Perhaps I should have made more clear that the scenery on its own does not seem to have a problem, only when used with certain other combinations of addon sceneries. I can remove any one of them and the problem goes away, which is why I initially wondered if there was a limit to the amount of scenery objects allowed per area.Did the sca file look OK or is there no point in looking at it? I am running FS9.1 and don't see this problem in other areas, or indeed at this area as long as there is not too much scenery installed!I will mention, without naming names for the moment if you understand what I mean, that I since saw reported by someone else a gd3.dll error worse than mine (crashing the sim while it was running, not just after shutting down as in my case) while using just one one of the addon sceneries involved, so maybe I should not worry too much about my own scenery and just carry on building it but with xml instead as you suggested, and maybe see if I can find out if there is a problem with one of the other addons. I did not really want to think about hacking into other scenery as I have only used excludes so far, but if it has a problem I might just be tempted to look inside to see if there is a possible cure there as I have already spent a lot of time on the whole project. I suppose the only way I will find out is to split the files into several smaller ones and maybe I can see which is the problem part that way by removing different parts files at a time to see what happens.And if I use xml it might hopefully solve the problem anyway.Thanks for taking the time to help me with this. At least I feel I can carry on with my own additions now.EDIT: I have one more question please. If I carry on and finish the buildings as intended with xml, will I be able to make flat double sided signs (2D?) with EOD and add them between the buildings later on? In other words is it possible to make the signs and position them wherever I want regardless of the buildings existing or not? Or do they have to be linked to the buildings in some way in the same bgl?

[arno 1]

Hi Charlie,>Perhaps I should have made more clear that the scenery on its>own does not seem to have a problem, only when used with>certain other combinations of addon sceneries.Humm, OK, that makes it even harder to debug.>Did the sca file look OK or is there no point in looking at>it? Yes, the file looked OK. It still contained a few obsolete commands that have no longer been in use since Fs2000 or so, but that should not be the problem (maybe old API macros also still contain them).>I will mention, without naming names for the moment if you>understand what I mean, that I since saw reported by someone>else a gd3.dll error worse than mine (crashing the sim while>it was running, not just after shutting down as in my case)>while using just one one of the addon sceneries involvedThat could indeed mean that the fault could be mainly in one of the other sceneries. And as you get the error only during shutdown of FS, it is not so bad.It reminds me of the crash you get when you use too many Fs2004 style platforms in your scenery. In that case FS will also crash while you quit (if you are on such a platform at the moment).>EDIT: I have one more question please. If I carry on and>finish the buildings as intended with xml, will I be able to>make flat double sided signs (2D?) with EOD and add them>between the buildings later on? In other words is it possible>to make the signs and position them wherever I want regardless>of the buildings existing or not? Or do they have to be linked>to the buildings in some way in the same bgl?I don't know what kind of signs you mean, but in general it is no problem to mix XML and older style scenery. You will just get two BGL files in the end, one with the buildings and one with your signs.

[Guest Charlie Hall]

Hi Arno, Thank you again for your reply. I have one question about one of your last comments please."It reminds me of the crash you get when you use too many Fs2004 style platforms in your scenery. In that case FS will also crash while you quit (if you are on such a platform at the moment)."I am interested in what you mean by too many Fs2004 style platforms. Could you please explain further? Is it to do with xml sceneries made with different programs, like RWY12 or SGX? I did use RWY12 to add some FS2004 objects in other parts of the general area a few kilometres away. However, removing those bgl files does not cure the problem. I avoided using other people's objects as I do not want the scenery to be dependent on the RWY12 program or additional objects."I don't know what kind of signs you mean, but in general it is no problem to mix XML and older style scenery. You will just get two BGL files in the end, one with the buildings and one with your signs."Advertising board and/or neon type signs in the streets between the buildings. Your answer is good news for me, so I can carry on adding buildings first.

[arno 1]

Hi Charlie,>I am interested in what you mean by too many Fs2004 style>platforms.It's the type of platform that you can make with the attachtool script in the Fs2004 GMax gamepack. If you use a lot of them, you will get a crash when you exit FS.

[Guest Charlie Hall]

Hi Arno, Thank you for your answer. I was not aware of that as I have not got as far as GMAX yet. I did look at it briefly a while ago and thought it was too much for me at the time. Maybe one day I will look at GMAX again and I will remember what you have said.