Ground2K problems

[betelgeuse 41]

I'd be grateful for advice on how to get started in G2K4. I have read the Beginners Introduction and I have installed the latest version (V5.4). Running FS9 in XP Pro.Problems:1. Not exactly sure how to create the background map and how to synchronise it with the FS9 scenery. I have a map (from Tropozone) and I have saved this as a .bmp file (RGB) using Photoshop 7. 2. When I attempt to assign the NW and SE lat/long coordinates I can bring up my map but I have other problems. First the NW point on the map is in the ocean and I cannot ID the coordinates using the FS slew command. Second, when I take the nearest suitable NW land feature and enter it with the SE lat/long data, I get this: Erreur!! (507) Points to be verified. The program then freezes.Perhaps I have missed something obvious.

[Guest abent]

I know exactly how you feel. Been there. This is how I do it but I'm by no means an expert. I hope it helps and do apologize if it confuses you. I'm sure someone with more experience - and hopefully a bit more articulate - will step in here.1) I usually take a top down pic in FS first. Be sure to hit the space bar so you are facing north before you take your pic. Select a point - the junction of 2 roads or some other obvious landmark for both your NW and SE points. Using Photoshop (I use PSP but I expect that it's the same in Photoshop) paste the Tropozone ontop of your FS image and adjust the opacity so you can see both images. It will be a bit tricky stretching and skewing the tropozone image to lay precisely over top of the FS image with the roads perfectly overlaying eachother. Save as a merged image. This will allow you to trace around lakes and other areas you want to texture while seeing the backgound image in FS. Then crop your image so that the top left corner of the pic is your NW point and the bottom right is your SE point.Some people use CellGrid to place lines on the scenery in FS which makes it easier to pick your points. It will help you get the coordinate that's out in the ocean.Use the TCalc program to locate your NW and SE points in FS. It's much more accurate than the FS coordinates.Load your background image in G2K4. Then you can start drawing on your polygons. 2) I think that your problem here may be that you are not facing north when you get your coordinates. I believe you can find both TCalc and CellGrid here in the library.Best of luck and as I said, I'm sure you will get more help.Adam

[betelgeuse 41]

Thanks very much, Adam.No, I did orientate to North when getting the coordinates and I saved the map as a .bmp file. I get the drift of your advice but am still stymied. I've downloaded the latest version of Cellgrid but there are no install instructions. I've played around with it in the Addon Scenery Library but no joy. So that's my first question.Second, maybe a look at the attached pics will shed light on my difficulty. Some poeople say a screenshot is unnecessary - I suppose if the coordinates are accurate that is true, but the ability to make an exact alignment with the default scenery is surely neccesary to avoid odd effects at the joins. :-hmmm I have used AFW and EOD and even done some AI flight dynamics tweaking. So I think I ought to be able to master this. On the other hand, I don't have unlimited time to fiddle with it! BetelMaybe I'm missing something obvious

[Guest drix]

Hi Betel,I had the same unfortunate experience just a few weeks ago until I just did a search for ground2k alignment on the avsim forums. The answer is there and is unecessary to duplicate it here. Best of luck.

[betelgeuse 41]

Thanks. The area I wish to modify is a 2 km approx length of shoreline. I doubt if the earth's curvature has much to do with the "(507) Points to be verified" error message I get when I try to input the NW and SE coordinates. :-hmmm

[Guest abent]

Hey Betel,As to CellGrid, I don't use it but have friends that do. I'll ask one of them to come into this thread and explain it to you.Are you not using Ultimate Terrain for Canada and Alaska? Because if you are, it would be easy to just add ground polys for towns etc and not have to worry about coastlines - unless ofcourse you want more detail. UT is a value and adds excellent and accurate coasts and it is also the standard. You often do need, though, to spice it up a bit with town textures, golf courses, grass, parks or even your own custom textures for that matter. That said, if you do create an accurate coastline, it's more than likely going to conflict with UT anyway.A screen shot may be unnecessary but then it helps to see what's default in the scenery. Sometime you have to expand a lake and to be able to see the default coastlines helps especially if you want new coastlines to meet up with the default coastline.If you want, you can grab Yahoo Messenger and a headset and I'd be happy to go through a project with you. I do this fairly regularly for GMAX and such.Adam

[betelgeuse 41]

Thanks a bunch, Adam! Maybe I will take a look at UT for Canada and Alaska. If you're serious it'd be great to go through a project on Yahoo Messenger. I'm on BST (Zulu+1) - what about you? Sometime this week? Betelgooneybird@breathe.com

[Holger 0]

Howdy,welcome to G2K4 design - it's fun! (no kidding)Since you're using a map from Topozone why don't you grab the corner coordinate pairs directly from the source? Change the coordinate format to DD.DDD, then move the cursor to the NW corner of your map, click on it (the coordinate will appear on top of the map) and write down the numbers. http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=5&n=6381...datum=nad83&u=5Those are the numbers you put into the G2K4 setup window. If the coordinates exactly match with the corners of your image then there's no need to click on NW Point and SE Point, just type the four coordinate values into the four Lat/Lon tabs (G2K4 understands the decimal degree format) and click OK.BTW, for areas near water another good source for background bitmaps are the marine maps available here: http://mapserver.maptech.com (search for Karluk, AK, click the top link found, then switch to "Nautical Chart" and zoom in for the high-res map of the area. Also, check out the images and charts here: http://www.alaska.faa.gov/fai/AirportSearch.htm?karlukFor small projects the misalignment between the UTM projection of the TopoZone maps and the geographic projection FS requires is probably not a big deal. However, if you want to make bigger projects you need to re-project the map first and there's a number of threads about this here in the forum. One of them is this: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchGood luck with your project!Cheers, Holger

[betelgeuse 41]

Wow! Holger! I haven't heard from you for a while. Do you remember the AI Dash 7 project I did based on Milton Schupe's great aeroplane? At the time you were working on tail rotors for your AI helicopters and something about using an .air file for a single engine motor glider if I remember right? At one stage my AI Dash 7 had only the port props spinning...made you think! Lol! So thanks very much for this. At great expense ;-) I downloaded UT for Canada and Alaska. Am not too impressed! Sorry Adam. Several of my coastal airfields including half the runway at Karluk are in the briney ocean, along with buildings at Kodiak Muni etc... Also,there's a lot of shimmering even with mipmapping right down. Hehe.So my G2K4 project is alive. I will take a break for a day or two and try to work this out using the info everyone has so kindly given. Hopefully when I post again I will have made some progress.Hey, it's great to hear from ya, Holger, and again, thanks a bunch! Betel

[Holger 0]

Hi Betel,I thought I had seen the user name before ;-) Yup, I still use those Dash-7s as AI (with all four props spinning); in fact, they are one of my favorite AI aircrafts to watch.As for UT and airfields in water: welcome to the world of inaccurately placed airfields in FS9 default. UT's Alaska shorelines aren't all that great (Allen couldn't get the same quality of data as he got for Canada) but they are more accurately positioned than the default shorelines. Unfortunately, the AirNav database, which the FS team used to make their AFCAD files, is very sketchy with regards to the geographic center point of small airfields (as well as other base data). I'm working on a new SE Alaska project and, once I had my highly accurate shorelines done, had to relocate all six landbased airfields and 26 seaplane bases - yikes! Same thing with my Columbia River Gorge project, where I relocated 20+ small airfields. You'll probably find the same if you start placing your new shorelines. Thus, you might want to consider using UT as a base or make a version that works with both UT and the default.If you need advice as to how to move default airfields, here's a "nice" summary thread: http://www.flightsimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35920Cheers, Holger

[Guest abent]

Hey, I was right...LOL. Someone more knowledgeable did step in!I was basing my observations of UT on the Canadian areas in which I build my sceneries. Sorry you are not happy with UT. Still willing to do the Messenger thing if you want. Totally up to you. Holger obviously knows much more about this than I and I wouldn't necessarily want to teach you bad habits. LOL.Either way, best of luck with your project.Adam

[betelgeuse 41]

Thanks, Adam. I hope I did not sound ungrateful. I will think about whether or not to use UT. Apart from the other things, I think I take a bit of a framerate hit too. The good news is that at last I have been able to produce a map of the area on the G2K4 screen. My next challenge is to align this with either the UT or the default scenery and for that I need to know how to install Cellgrid. Once that's done I can get on with the actual design changes. I will see how this goes. Maybe I will take up your kind Messenger offer in the unlikely event of serious difficulty ;-). Do you have Skype?

[Guest abent]

>Thanks, Adam. I hope I did not sound ungrateful. I didn't get that impression at all.Best of luck. I don't have Skype yet but getting it soon as some of the other scenery design guys I meet on Messenger with are getting it.Cheers,Adam

[betelgeuse 41]

Well guys, this is how far I've got. A jpeg image consisting of map over screenshot. I also have it as .bmp and .psd files. Question now is, how to get this into G2K4? As I said, I have managed to get my topozone map on the G2K4 screen but obviously its not this map/screenshot combo. So How do I 'import' this into G24K? Hmmm......Betel

[Holger 0]

Hi Betel,it depends what you want to do: if you want to change the surrounding landscape (e.g., add shorelines, islands, harbor, etc.) you do not need to place your map onto a screenshot of FS. All you need to do is save your topo map (mosaic) as bmp, load it into the G2K4 setup window and type or copy the two corner coordinate pairs into the respective lat/long windows (see my first email above). And you're good to go. No need for Cellgrid with this method. If you want to make your changes compatible with the existing default shorelines only, then Adam's method would probably work better. BTW, you screenshot/map combo above is clearly not right. The map grid has a 1-km spacing and the landing strip indicated on the map should probably match in scale with the FS9 airfield.Cheers, Holger