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Flying HAS to be more difficult than this!!!!!!!

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You mean you haven't practiced short field landings on rooftops before? If your route takes you over a city, I would certainly make sure I get some dual practicing those. Much better than landing on congested highways these days, what with all the road rage down there. I'd rather take my chances on the roof of some big building. And if you overshoot? Just land below :) (in case you can't tell i'm kidding).As for the second part, I'm not sure I understand that one. Maybe ask for a progressive? After all, the taxiways are labeled. I just generally find it harder in MS being spacially aware of my surrounds.mw

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Guest SD Sim

I am envious of your skills. I usually fly twin props. On the two occassions that I have flown the heavies (737 and 777), everything has gone fine until trying to land these beasts. Both times I have stalled within one or two miles of the runway :-halo . Apparently my gaming skills need improvement!

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Guest B52Drivr

Barry,Yes, you are correct, for all practical purposes, it IS a game . . . for enjoyment. However . . .The However is: You can make it as difficult as you desire -- Point>Percision Flight Sim Yoke and throttle controls. Radio accessories, all the bells and whistles for control. Add on programs . . . I run FS 2002 and have managed to get Pro Flight 2000 to work perfectly in 2002. Add Flight Deck Companion to that, and FS Nav and real weather, and what you have is a atmosphere which, if, you follow procedures, and attempt to make it 'as real as it gets' with first class aircraft, flight plans, ATC and a second officer and crew, life gets pretty busy on a flight from KEWR to KHXD (Hilton Head).My point is, I am a real world pilot with more hours than even I care to remember, . I can no longer fly due to a heart condition, so Simming takes its place, and believe me, because of the lack of certain physical inputs, it, at times, is more involved than real world aviation. Agreed, the traffic AI is not as heavy as real world, nor the results if you make a tragic mistake, but it CAN, get real heavy if you program it and yourself for it to be that way.Myself, I like to handle emergencies, the unexpected and try configurations that I would not attempt in real life. But it is enjoyable and, with the room door closed, a little red lighting and everything running, at times you can get your pulse rate up quite a bit . . . it's all how you look at it.Best Regards,Clayton T. DopkeMajor, USAF (Retired)"Drac"

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Guest SD Sim

Ouch!! Hopefully for demonstration purposes only :-lol . You probably already figured this out - less ailerons and more rudder will make those landings easier. But without question, landing is no easy task if you fly it manually.

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Guest SD Sim

Hi Clayton,Glad to hear your comments. I would like to fly, but cannot for medical reasons as well. However, I find that virtual flight is very challenging, particularly if I leave all the settings on the most difficult level, add a cloud layer, add some good wind... Top that off with IFR (sans GPS, which I suspect from your post you did not have when you first started flying) and I think anybody would be adequately challenged. Flying the B52 must have been a thrill :-) .

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About 10 years ago, a student pilot returning from a cross-country solo, ran out of fuel over a very crowded shopping center. After thinking about roof tops, she successfuly stalled the Cessna 152 into a tree next to a video store. Neither the pilot nor plane suffered much damage. Good emergency landing on part of the student pilot, but the moral of the story is to put in more fuel at the "other" end!And speaking of "road rage", another pilot (guy this time) ran out of fuel over our crowded freeway. He found a spot between two vehicles & successfully set the Cessna Cardinal RG down between them. Unfortunately a friend of my sister, who was driving the small pickup truck in front of him, slammed on her brakes when she saw an airplane in her review mirror! Luckily, the plane only suffered prop, cowl, & nosewheel damage, & will fly again!! Other than that, two planes have crashed, nearly in my backyard in the 2 1/2 years I've lived here. The second one was 600' away! But that's what you get for living under a small airport pattern!L.Adamson --- next to U-42 (under KSLC ClassB)

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I agree that compared to the real thing, this is a game.However, during the past year or so, I've invited 4 real-life pilots to do short flight on FS2000 and FS2002. They are [1] a 62 year old private pilot (and instructor) who owns a Beech Bonanza for over 30 years now, [2] a current United Airlines B737 first officer, [3] a retired PanAm B747 captain, previously a DC-10 captain with the old National Airlines, and [3] a current United Airlines B767-300ER captain.They all tried to fly the FS2002 Baron 58 and the PIC 767 aircraft. They tried hard to fly these 2 planes many many times but they all failed every time and crashed. Remember, two of these guys fly on real-life United Aircraft everyday, but they could simple not hand-fly the PIC 767 (which is IMHO the most hand-flyable FSim aircraft arround).My pilot friends all told me that if real-life flying was like flying the FS2002 Baron 58 and PIC 767, thonsands of people would die everyday on airline accidents. Now, listed to this: they all agreed that real-life flying (as far as controlling the aircraft and making it do everything you want) was a piece of cake compared to flying the PIC 767. One of them has been formally trained on the United B744 and he claims that the B744 is a pretty easy plane to fly in real life.I guess the rest of us, non-real-life-pilots, will never be able to tell for sure -- Go figure,J. Padron (KMIA)---

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Guest PaulL01

Larry,I have enjoyed reading your responses to this thread very much as Your perspective strikes me as very sincere and real as compared to just fervent belief, as you stated the "feel" of our hardware is so much a part of the equation and in need of some serious re-design. I really miss my old thrustmaster stick for its "heavy feel". Do you have any recommendations as to a good yoke or stick that

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Barry,I know your post has prompted lots of replies (some less than kind!) but having thought about your original post I can offer this response to you:YES! you are quite correct - it is pretty easy to download a typical (add-on) aircraft and take off and land - however, there is some skill involved in both taking off and landing cleanly, as opposed to creating a pile of virtual-rubble!I would however challenge you on one point - I bet you cant do that with the Bell 206B helicopter - or if you think that you can and it is also fair game - you are definately not 'flying' it properly! :-smile12I could also give you a couple of alternatives (helicopters) - which will keep you busy for quite a while :) - and they ARE pretty close to the REAL THING! and if you care to check out the 'Rotorheads Forum' and ask about the 'hoversafe academy' and think you want to give helos a work out - that's a good place to start!Barry, the bottom line is YES! it is a game - (it even says so on the box!) - but 'boy' what a game we have got!!Other posts have referred to the fact it isnt just about taking off and landing.... that is so true and I'm sure you agree?I have discovered and flown in parts of the World (even in your Country's 'outback) that I will never get to see in real life and for me that is 'my gig'!So you see - what might have been an innocent (and 'correct' initial take on FS2002) was a little premature on your part and bearing in mind that many of us here started with aircraft and panels which were little more than wire-frame graphics - I am sure you will see why you got the responses :)

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Paul,I liked my previous Saitek 3D Digtial stick for the feel of the grip. I now use a Saitek X45 which has a seperate throttle but many more options. Took a bit to get use to, in comparison to the previous one, but it has a nice heavy feeling spring & is a very solid feeling unit. Cost is about 79 bucks. Has two hat switches & many dial operations as well as a rocker switch in the throttle handle for rudder. But I prefer rudder pedals 10-1 ! I just don't get ANY feel by using a twist grip or rocker switch.Ladamson

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there is BIG differnce between real life fly and a simulated $80 enviroment.The flying part itself is easy.It's really learn to navigate through clouds on a hot humid day with only VFR sectional charts.It's much hard to spot airports in mid day hazy conidtions or just in general.Turbulance is not modeled very well and of course you do not feel it.For me turbulance is somethign iam still not very used to and it makes flying harder etc... So there are alot of difference.My problem with FS2002 is that it lacks feeling.There is not much difference to me between the DF737 and PIC when hand flying .There are a TON of differnces.I could go on forever.Flying is the easy part.It's everything inbetween is what is hard Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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Guest PaulL01

>Paul, >>I liked my previous Saitek 3D Digtial stick for the feel of >the grip. I now use a Saitek X45 which has a seperate >throttle but many more options. Took a bit to get use to, in >comparison to the previous one, but it has a nice heavy >feeling spring & is a very solid feeling unit. Cost is about >79 bucks. Has two hat switches & many dial operations as >well as a rocker switch in the throttle handle for rudder. >But I prefer rudder pedals 10-1 ! I just don't get ANY feel >by using a twist grip or rocker switch. >>Ladamson Larry,Does the Saitek have a hat switch (POV)? I like being able to change views on the "fly" and would miss it.ThanksPaul

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<<< a 62 year old private pilot (and instructor) who owns a Beech Bonanza for over 30 years now, <2> a current United Airlines B737 first officer, <3> a retired PanAm B747 captain, previously a DC-10 captain with the old National Airlines, and <3> a current United Airlines B767-300ER captain.They all tried to fly the FS2002 Baron 58 and the PIC 767 aircraft. They tried hard to fly these 2 planes many many times but they all failed every time and crashed. Remember, two of these guys fly on real-life United Aircraft everyday, but they could simple not hand-fly the PIC 767 (which is IMHO the most hand-flyable FSim aircraft arround)>>>>>>All that demonstrates is that they are not proficient at our game. There is SO much more to airline flying than the manipulation of the controls, switches and other doohickeys that we geeks like to THINK that we can operate to the level of proficiency that these professionals do on a daily basis.There is no question that PIC (and others) are marvelous pieces of code; however, it would b silly to think that I could step into that -322ER and take it across the pond. Get real.

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Two hat switches!! I use one as an eight position switch for 2D views and for panning in the virtual. I use the other one for elec. trim. There are also many other switches/knobs for possible trimming. L.Adamson

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