Is GPS illegal in commercial airplane?

[Guest]

Is that true that using the GPS is illegal in commercial airliners? I have seen people using GPS on board and i am told that it is illegal. Can you tell me which is true?Thanks!POGO

[JLedford 0]

Some captains do not allow you to use them...however a good friend of mine used one on an international flight with permission from the captain. This was aboard a US flag carrier.Hope this answers you question.

[michal 44]

Maybe it is illegal like it is illegal to use cell phones or operate laptops - at least during takeoffs and landings.Michael J.

[Guest JeanLuc_]

Hi POGO,I would rather think that it is illegal to use it a the primary mean of navigation. Although I'm not ATP myself.

[Guest]

I was wondering that when I was flying from Greece - do the handhelds work fine when you are inside then ?? Not used one before .. ..

[Guest]

GPS systems have an antenna. Most airlines don't allow the use of ANY equipment with an antenna by passengers. This was initially put in place because analog electronics could be easily harmed by the fields of radio antennae. Current digital electronics can still suffer from radio transmitters like mobile phones (except when properly shielded like the equipment certified for use on board aircraft) and the restriction stands.It's far easier to just say NO than to have to explain to everage John or Jane Doe why their cellphone is not allowed but the pocket GPS the person sitting next to them is OK (the average Jane Doe could as easily be the flightattendant here, most of them wouldn't know an FAA certified piece of equipment from one that you picked up at the local supermarket).

[brucek 38]

The captain is the final authority on this, although FAA (or whatever administration is in effect where you are) and/or airlines may have over-riding rules as well.If in the US, or on a US carrier, I would be alert to an adverse reaction by security screeners or even airline cabin crew. People do worry about what you do on board an aircraft anymore.Bruce.BJC, Jeffco, CO.

[Guest lawyerpilot]

The FMC in an airliner all the way down to a King Air 350, if it has one, uses GPS, WAAS, and VOR driven waypoints to create a flightplan. Before there was GPS, you had to use the VOR itself as a waypoint, or an intersection where two VOR radials come together. But, with GPS, you can create waypoints anywhere essentially. That is because as long as your antennae is receiving, the GPS tells you where you are continuously, unlike the VOR which dies out between 70-140 miles out depending if it is high or low. That is why the government is moving toward removing VORs by 2010, or something like that, in favor of GPS approaches b/c it does not cost any money to maintain a GPS on the ground, only a satellite. There are no buildings like VORs and NDBs. BTW, I think it goes without saying that no airline would allow the crew to use handhelds. The GPS I am speaking of is something like a $120,000 Collins Pro-line or something similar.As for use by passengers, the only FAR's that would seem to dictate would be those that regulate CD players, electronic devices, etc, as the post above had noted. Ciao, ChristopherP4 1.8768 ram 80 gig hardriveVisiontek Ti4 4600CH yoke/pedals19" inch monitor-Soundblaster PCI 512Win XPPrivate PilotAOPALawyerPilots Bar Association"Men without dreams are never free, twas thus this way and thus will ever be."

[Guest]

hello allwell gps has been a legal navaid for along time.. in fact suncountry on its 727s was the first to get approval as afar back as 1992 odd as sole means of LONG RANGE NAVIGATION on the trimble tnl 8100model ..of crs there are plenty of vfr only models ,but plenty ifr versions flyin aroumd..hit magellan,tomorrow,garmin all these makers of gps'es and u will pick up wat more info.i have also used the same version gps ,of course u need two dual and independent units on board ..what one needs is tso c129 certification..u have probably heard about a number of standalone gps letdowns in many us airfileds .. thought it is limited to only non precision ones now.. the gps is used in many airliners along with the irs as primary means of navigation without any ground based navaid whatsoverbi bi kunal

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Why did you see the need to post that message three times over the course of ten minutes???? I have removed your other two. Please don't waste our system resources or user's bandwidth. Thank you.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Actually, to add some clarification and other material to your post; before GPS was Ring Laser Inertial Navigation Systems for larger commercial aircraft. Most larger a/c that fly trans-Atlantic and Pacific have and still do use two or more of these systems as their PRIMARY navigation system. The Litton, Honeywell, SAGEM and LITEF systems (and others) come to mind. GPS is an adjunct sensor to the INS system. That is, it "aids" the INS during what is called "rapid align" mode, and acts as a "sanity check" during in-flight ops, among other functions. If one or more of the INS system data disagrees significantly with the output of the GPS, the integrated system starts doing some fancy things that indicate to the pilot that he may have a fault and where it may exist. More importantly, what the GPS brings to the integrated system is a lower circle of error of probability (that is, a smaller circle of possible error) during transit from one waypoint to another. If ever brought into service in ILS application, the GPS will then have primacy, but it will still be tied into and function very closely coupled to the INS system.

[Peter Clark 21]

I believe people have become somewhat confused here.Yes, GPS works fine, if you're the pilot. A lot of aircraft nowadays, including commercial airliners, are equipped with it.However,14 CFR Parts 91, 121, 125, 135 (http://www.faa.gov/avr/arm/a91-xxx.doc if you are really interested in reading the whole rule) deals with being a passenger and using portable electronic devices (for US flagged carriers):For example,

[Guest cj_flys_wmu]

Well, From a general aviation standpoint, there is a lot of ambiguity in the regulations a far a GPS is concerned. The only publication that I have seen that even addressed GPS is in the AIM (where it is only advisory and not regulatory). I have had many discussions and debates with fellow pilot friends. We have come to some conclusions. The first one is that the only way that you could legally accept a GPS approach is to have an IFR approved GPS receiver, with some sort of indication (i.e. OBS or HSI slaving in the cockpit.) It has to meet some TSO or STC certificaion as specified by the FAA. It also has to have a current card, that is updated every 54 or so days. This is an obvious rule.The second conclusion that we have come to is in the use of a GPS on an IFR flight plan in an enroute situation. We have found that it is ok to file /G or /R or what ever RNAV slant you are capable of using if you have that GPS installed in the TSO of STC rule. You could then use that GPS to go "direct" for example but you couldn't accept a GPS approach legally.I was at an aviation conference and had the chance to talk to one of the Garmin reps. One trick that he like to use is if a GPS is not IFR certified, he will hit the direct to button, set what the heading is, and request that heading in a vector from ATC. If ATC gives it to you, you are on a vector and that is legal as well.The largest grey area is in the VFR side of things. The FAA says that we can use GPS for "situational awareness" only. My little hand held GPS is much more accurate then the OBIs I have mounted on my instrument panels. I love VFR flying and going direct everyware because of this, and I always have the VORs tuned in to crosscheck what I have in my GPS.Take care,CJ StarrPPLInstrument Student

[Cpudan80 0]

You can use a GPS with permission from the captain. You cannot use a cell-phone, its waves interfere with the aircraft's communication system. You can use a laptop as long as its not connected to a wireless internet... Cpudan80

[michal 44]

>it is ok to file /G or /R or what ever RNAV slant you are capable of using if you have that GPS installed in the TSO of STC rule.You meant to say non-TSO ?I suppose it is obvious you can file /G or /R if you have IFR-rated GPS but can you do the same for non-IFR GPS ? This way you could legally use GPS during enroute only.Michael J.