London City (EGLC)

[Guest]

London City airport has one runway (10/28) and for AI a/c to take off from 28 they have to back taxi, do a 360 and lineup for take off. Using AFCAD 1.3.2 I have the a/c back taxying without problem.The trouble starts when they get to the end and do the 360.Instead of completing the circle and coming back onto the runway the a/c ends up on the grass, either to the left or right of the runway (seem a random choice) and takes off from there!The AFCAD manual describes how to make a turn around point but I have been unable to get this to work. Has anyone ?

[Guest]

Dear Marek,at another airport I built I just had to design a small loop at the designated turning point...See attached pic.I gave the loop a taxiway indicator and the fs strives on its own to get the departing aircraft lined up properly by going through the loop.ReadUTM

[Guest]

Hi Meyro,But what happens if there is a second a/c cleared to land at the moment that the a/c just leaves the RWY in the loop? Is there a way to solve that?Cheers Robert

[Holger 0]

Hi Robert:Additional points about the turnaround loop: the second node of the loop needs to be closer to the runway than the first (otherwise the AC might turn away from the runway), and the distance between the second node and the runway end node needs to be large enough that the aircraft travels in a straight line towards it; otherwise it will do the final 180 degree turn right at the second node of the loop and line up incorrectly.Any time an aircraft leaves the runway after takeoff clearance, incoming ACs are given the go-ahead even if the AC on the ground is just in a turnaround loop; therefore, turnaround loops at busy airports are not very helpful (I think). If the runway is wide enough you might be able to fit the loop within its boundaries; it doesn't appear to have any negative effects if you bend the runway line a bit in the opposite direction to accomodate the loop.Let us know what you come up with. If it doesn't work out I might give it a try - uh, I sense the possibility of public humiliation ;-)Cheers, Holger

[Guest]

Thanks. I'll give it a tryRobert

[Guest]

Hi HolgerThe problem is indeed more complicated than it looks. After working around a bit with nodes and taxiways, I have found out that a second taxiway close to the runway is the best solution. Still you have to use more or less your rules. The sim rate also influences the a/c behaviour, thus, don't look at sim x2 or x4 but at normal sim speed.Lots of trials and errors for each airport can give one a comfortable, but not an ideal solution.Cheers

[Guest]

I have solved the backtracking turnaround problem on 28, but my problem is getting the departing aircraft to use a different link to the runway as the arriving ones use. I finish up with head to heads at the same link. I have posted a string re. this (before I found this one. Below is the work I have done so far,Mick; Flight Simulator Airport EGLC (London City); File generated by AFCAD Version 1.4; HomeFile( "eurnwafd.bgl" );Set( fsvers 0x800 )Header( 1 N51:33.0517 N51:27.5312 E0:08.0571 W0:01.4932 )AI_Border( N51:33.0517 N51:27.5312 E0:08.0571 W0:01.4932 )Container( APT 1 ) APLocation( N51:30.3149 E0:03.2621 5.18 ) ICAO_ID( EGLC ) ;---- Runways and associated ILS units RwyLoc( N51:30.3035 E0:03.3873 5.18 91.500 -4.0 4000 150 N 10 CEMENT 0x53 304.8 ) Navaid( N51:30.2906 E0:04.0338 5.18 92.890 111.150 LOC NONE 2 "ILST" ) Navaid( N51:30.3527 E0:02.8450 5.18 5.500 111.150 SLOPE NONE 2 "ILST" ) Navaid( N51:30.3473 E0:03.2652 5.18 92.890 111.150 DME NONE 2 "ILST" ) Navaid( N51:30.3377 E0:02.5301 5.18 272.890 111.150 LOC NONE 4 "ILSR" ) Navaid( N51:30.3282 E0:03.6931 5.18 5.500 111.150 SLOPE NONE 4 "ILSR" ) Navaid( N51:30.3473 E0:03.2652 5.18 272.890 111.150 DME NONE 4 "ILSR" ) ;---- Marker Beacons (if any) ;---- Helipads (if any) ;---- Communications Frequency( 132.700 APCON "CITY" ) Frequency( 128.025 APCON "CITY" ) Frequency( 132.700 APCON "THAMES" ) Frequency( 118.075 CT "CITY" ) Frequency( 118.400 CT "CITY" ) ;---- Start Locations SetupLoc( N51:30.3125 E0:02.8922 5.18 92.9 1 N 10 ) SetupLoc( N51:30.3008 E0:03.8465 5.18 272.9 1 N 28 ) ;---- Control Tower Tower( N51:30.2311 E0:02.9794 21.64 0 ) ;---- Taxiway and Parking data AI_DataStart TaxiwayPoints( 0 -460.36 -5.26 0 -201.55 -95.62 0 -218.27 -94.95 0 -155.99 -96.58 0 -239.56 -95.06 0 -278.35 -95.27 0 -319.80 -95.48 0 -360.59 -95.70 0 -400.05 -95.90 0 -442.84 -96.13 0 -480.95 -96.33 0 -525.75 -96.56 0 -562.70 -95.35 0 -563.92 -32.70 0 -563.70 -12.87 0 -496.57 -10.68 0 -496.14 -96.41 0 -496.47 -31.30 0 -217.67 -11.49 0 645.10 -25.15 0 674.47 -79.35 0 653.50 -44.40 0 661.89 -61.18 0 708.55 -25.63 0 694.59 -73.62 0 707.17 -59.64 0 709.96 -41.47 1 -496.32 -61.79 1 -563.27 -66.15 1 -218.05 -64.88 0 762.83 -26.04 ) Positions( -319.11 -134.77 31.00 179.3 0x0C80028A -483.85 -139.03 31.00 179.3 0x0C80048A -196.20 -134.90 31.00 179.3 0x0C80010A -275.65 -135.57 31.00 179.3 0x0C80020A -400.82 -136.90 31.00 179.3 0x0C80038A -239.66 -135.44 31.00 179.3 0x0C80018A -442.15 -136.23 31.00 179.3 0x0C80040A -359.24 -133.31 31.00 179.3 0x0C80030A -154.62 -134.10 31.00 179.3 0x0C80008A -530.69 -136.67 31.00 179.3 0x0C80050A -590.99 -133.00 31.00 231.8 0x0C80058A ) TaxiwayPath( 1 45.7 500000 0 18 0 1.0 0 1 45.7 500000 19 18 0 1.0 0 1 45.7 500000 23 19 0 1.0 0 1 45.7 500000 30 23 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 3 8 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 1 2 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 4 5 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 5 3 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 6 0 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 7 7 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 8 4 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 9 6 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 10 1 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 11 9 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 12 10 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 1 2 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 3 1 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 4 2 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 5 4 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 6 5 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 7 6 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 8 7 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 9 8 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 10 9 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 11 12 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 16 11 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 16 10 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 14 15 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 15 0 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 13 14 0 1.0 4 0 30.5 500000 17 15 0 1.0 3 0 30.5 500000 19 21 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 21 22 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 22 20 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 20 24 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 24 25 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 25 26 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 26 23 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 27 17 0 1.0 3 0 30.5 500000 27 16 0 1.0 3 0 30.5 500000 28 12 0 1.0 4 0 30.5 500000 28 13 0 1.0 4 0 30.5 500000 29 2 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 29 18 0 1.0 0 ) TaxiwayNames( " " "A" "B" "C" "D" ) AI_DataEndEndCNameList( 409 ) NameEntry( REGION 0 "Europe" ) NameEntry( COUNTRY 0 "United Kingdom" ) NameEntry( CITY 0 "London" ) NameEntry( AIRPORT 1 "London City" )EndNL

[Guest]

I think I have sorted Mareks problem out as well as others I have encountered, this with grateful thanks to Holger. File below. This is for 28 arr/deps. Have got to sort problems out with the easterly ones.File below.Mick; Flight Simulator Airport EGLC (London City); File generated by AFCAD Version 1.4; HomeFile( "eurnwafd.bgl" );Set( fsvers 0x800 )Header( 1 N51:33.0517 N51:27.5312 E0:08.0571 W0:01.4932 )AI_Border( N51:33.0517 N51:27.5312 E0:08.0571 W0:01.4932 )Container( APT 1 ) APLocation( N51:30.3149 E0:03.2621 5.18 ) ICAO_ID( EGLC ) ;---- Runways and associated ILS units RwyLoc( N51:30.3035 E0:03.3873 5.18 91.500 -4.0 4000 150 N 10 CEMENT 0x53 304.8 ) Navaid( N51:30.2906 E0:04.0338 5.18 92.890 111.150 LOC NONE 2 "ILST" ) Navaid( N51:30.3527 E0:02.8450 5.18 5.500 111.150 SLOPE NONE 2 "ILST" ) Navaid( N51:30.3473 E0:03.2652 5.18 92.890 111.150 DME NONE 2 "ILST" ) Navaid( N51:30.3377 E0:02.5301 5.18 272.890 111.150 LOC NONE 4 "ILSR" ) Navaid( N51:30.3282 E0:03.6931 5.18 5.500 111.150 SLOPE NONE 4 "ILSR" ) Navaid( N51:30.3473 E0:03.2652 5.18 272.890 111.150 DME NONE 4 "ILSR" ) ;---- Marker Beacons (if any) ;---- Helipads (if any) ;---- Communications Frequency( 132.700 APCON "CITY" ) Frequency( 128.025 APCON "CITY" ) Frequency( 132.700 APCON "THAMES" ) Frequency( 118.075 CT "CITY" ) Frequency( 118.400 CT "CITY" ) Frequency( 129.300 CDEL "CITY" ) Frequency( 119.300 GNDCON "CITY" ) Frequency( 119.000 CT "CITY" ) ;---- Start Locations SetupLoc( N51:30.3125 E0:02.8922 5.18 92.9 1 N 10 ) SetupLoc( N51:30.3008 E0:03.8465 5.18 272.9 1 N 28 ) ;---- Control Tower Tower( N51:30.2311 E0:02.9794 21.64 0 ) ;---- Taxiway and Parking data AI_DataStart TaxiwayPoints( 0 -460.36 -5.26 0 -201.55 -95.62 0 -218.27 -94.95 0 -155.99 -96.58 0 -239.56 -95.06 0 -278.35 -95.27 0 -319.80 -95.48 0 -360.59 -95.70 0 -400.05 -95.90 0 -442.84 -96.13 0 -480.95 -96.33 0 -525.75 -96.56 0 -562.70 -95.35 0 -563.92 -32.70 0 -563.70 -12.87 0 -496.57 -10.68 0 -496.14 -96.41 0 -496.47 -31.30 0 -217.67 -11.49 0 674.47 -79.35 0 651.37 -29.48 0 661.89 -61.18 0 708.55 -25.63 0 694.59 -73.62 0 707.17 -59.64 0 709.96 -41.47 1 -496.32 -61.79 1 -563.27 -66.15 1 -218.05 -64.88 0 762.83 -26.04 0 -213.08 -14.92 0 -218.17 -80.95 ) Positions( -319.11 -134.77 31.00 179.3 0x0C80028A -483.85 -139.03 31.00 179.3 0x0C80048A -196.20 -134.90 31.00 179.3 0x0C80010A -275.65 -135.57 31.00 179.3 0x0C80020A -400.82 -136.90 31.00 179.3 0x0C80038A -239.66 -135.44 31.00 179.3 0x0C80018A -442.15 -136.23 31.00 179.3 0x0C80040A -359.24 -133.31 31.00 179.3 0x0C80030A -154.62 -134.10 31.00 179.3 0x0C80008A -530.69 -136.67 31.00 179.3 0x0C80050A -590.99 -133.00 31.00 231.8 0x0C80058A ) TaxiwayPath( 1 45.7 500000 0 18 0 1.0 0 1 45.7 500000 29 22 0 1.0 0 1 45.7 500000 18 22 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 3 8 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 1 2 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 4 5 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 5 3 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 6 0 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 7 7 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 8 4 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 9 6 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 10 1 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 11 9 0 1.0 0 2 30.5 500000 12 10 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 1 2 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 3 1 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 4 2 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 5 4 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 6 5 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 7 6 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 8 7 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 9 8 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 10 9 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 11 12 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 16 11 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 16 10 0 1.0 1 0 30.5 500000 14 15 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 15 0 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 13 14 0 1.0 4 0 30.5 500000 17 15 0 1.0 3 0 30.5 500000 20 21 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 21 19 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 19 23 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 23 24 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 24 25 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 25 22 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 26 17 0 1.0 3 0 30.5 500000 26 16 0 1.0 3 0 30.5 500000 27 12 0 1.0 4 0 30.5 500000 27 13 0 1.0 4 0 30.5 500000 28 30 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 20 30 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 31 28 0 1.0 0 0 30.5 500000 31 2 0 1.0 0 ) TaxiwayNames( " " "A" "B" "C" "D" ) AI_DataEndEndCNameList( 409 ) NameEntry( REGION 0 "Europe" ) NameEntry( COUNTRY 0 "United Kingdom" ) NameEntry( CITY 0 "London" ) NameEntry( AIRPORT 1 "London City" )EndNL