PNE ILS (northeast Philadelphia): outer only?

[Guest]

Just wondering if anyone can confirm that the ILS approach to 24 at PNE is missing its middle marker... I only got tones for the outer marker.It should have outer and middle.And yes, landed on the correct runway :)Andrew

[RandallR 444]

Andrew,There is no Middle Marker in the ILS Rwy 24 approach for PNE in the real world. TRI got it right - not all ILS approaches have middle markers, and this is one of them.If you look at the instrument approach plate, the MAP is timed. Minimum descent is to 316'. Since the distance from the FAF (Final Approch Fix) to the MAP (Missed Approach Point) is 5.5 NM, you would continue your descent until you reached 316' and/or had flown the distance of 5.5 miles. At this point you must have seen the airport or would need to fly the missed approach procedure. There is a small chart on the lower right of most approach plates that gives you the time to fly this distance - in this case, it would take 3:40 to arrive at the MAP when flying at 90 knots, etc.Yep, it's a lot easier when there is a marker or an intersection, but I'll still take the nice ILS over a VOR or NDB approach when it's available. :-)

[Guest]

Oh, ok - I did a quick scan for it on Airnav and saw a listing for a middle marker beacon.... Thanks!Andrew>Andrew, >>There is no Middle Marker in the ILS Rwy 24 approach for PNE >in the real world. TRI got it right - not all ILS >approaches have middle markers, and this is one of them. >>If you look at the instrument approach plate, the MAP is >timed. Minimum descent is to 316'. Since the distance from >the FAF (Final Approch Fix) to the MAP (Missed Approach >Point) is 5.5 NM, you would continue your descent until you >reached 316' and/or had flown the distance of 5.5 miles. At >this point you must have seen the airport or would need to >fly the missed approach procedure. There is a small chart on >the lower right of most approach plates that gives you the >time to fly this distance - in this case, it would take 3:40 >to arrive at the MAP when flying at 90 knots, etc. >>Yep, it's a lot easier when there is a marker or an >intersection, but I'll still take the nice ILS over a VOR or >NDB approach when it's available. :-)

[RandallR 444]

Airnav is a fantastic site - I wish there was an Airnav for the whole world...then we would be able to fix just about everything in the database.As good as they are, they occasionally mess up. The current chart (April, 02) still shows no MM. Back when I was updating Gillespie Field in San Diego, I found that Airnav had placed two markers that didn't exist. They need to be more careful - I'm guessing that they obtained the exact lat/lon of the two points, but didn't verify that these intersections actually didn't have markers.For the most part, Airnav's info is pretty dependable.

[Guest]

Yup - Airnav is phenomenal... and FREE!?!?Anyway, their listing for PNE ILS is interesting:Outer marker information Type: OUTER MARKER BEACON ONLY Name: BORDA Location: 40-09-06.595N / 074-54-46.098W 5.5 nm (33450 ft.) from the approach end of runway 24Middle marker information Type: MIDDLE MARKER BEACON ONLY Location: 40-05-47.097N / 074-59-33.109W 0.6 nm (3370 ft.) from the approach end of runway 24It's strange how "Outer marker beacon only" would be correct I guess - but the middle marker has no name?.... I'm not too good at this coordinate stuff, but is that essentially just a fix or something?Andrew>Airnav is a fantastic site - I wish there was an Airnav for >the whole world...then we would be able to fix just about >everything in the database. >>As good as they are, they occasionally mess up. The current >chart (April, 02) still shows no MM. Back when I was >updating Gillespie Field in San Diego, I found that Airnav >had placed two markers that didn't exist. They need to be >more careful - I'm guessing that they obtained the exact >lat/lon of the two points, but didn't verify that these >intersections actually didn't have markers. >>For the most part, Airnav's info is pretty dependable.

[RandallR 444]

Markers usually don't have names. When they do (and the Outer Marker is the most likely case) it's because they are part of an Intersection, Compas Locator, or Non-Directional Beacon. These items all have names which are sometimes shared with the marker.In this case, there is an intersection named Borda which is directly above the marker.

[JimD737 0]

Hi Andrew!As Randall suggested, check the IAP. I've included a link below. I'm not instrument rated but I have flown into PNE from Morristown NJ once. Up until then, I hadn't flown into an airport that had stuff (houses/apartments/..etc) around it. It was pretty cool. :-kewlhttp://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl?NorthEast/PNE_ir24.GIFRegards,

[JimD737 0]

Oops, the link didn't take for some reason.http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl?pne

[Guest]

That's a cool site - thanks!>Oops, the link didn't take for some reason. >>http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl?pne