I'm not "Nasty" enough!! Who's Capt. Bob?

[LAdamson 240]

I'm really much to tame here: :)Check out reply #2http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID8/3460.htmlL.Adamson

[Guest Josve]

LOL you're kidding Larry,everybody knows Capt'n Bob.....To be serious...no idea who he is!But to comment that post....totally unneccesary to post something like that.If someone doesn't like FS2002 or Fly2 whats the big deal?? Just leave it there,no need to state that one or another is better.Make up your own mind and keep it there.....until someone asks...then you can answer in a mature way why you think what you think.There has always been a kind of "war" about what sim is best,what car is best,what country is best,what woman is best,what icecream is best and so on.So if it was a simple answer to this....everybody would at least drive a RollsRoyce....The thing is,and a lot of people already found out,is just to ignore that kind of posts....lets live happily together with a lot of sims....bisimuality rocks!!!Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/fly2/vas.gif][/div

[Guest]

You are absolutely correct, Johnny, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why someone posts messages like that. Only to get things heated up and it serves no purpose. So I removed it before anyone had a chance to respond. Some will say a little drastic but I know I get really tired of the "my sim is better than yours" back and forth.So for those that try to go to Larry's link, that is why it is dead now. :-)

[Guest]

Mr. L. Adamson.... your NASTY reputation preceeds you. In all fareness i am not going to engage in personal attacks that you have started now or in the past. I want it noted on the record though that i still don't like your NASTY attitude, due to your respresed hostility to the MS FS 2002 software. Anyway, lets start over. I applaud you coming over to the FLY! community it appears that you are making forward progress. Just one step at a time Mr. L. Adamson. :)

[Guest Jan]

:)Jan

[Guest Josve]

Take it Easy Bob!!After Larry became bisimual,he's a member of the Fly2 family also,and have done nothing wrong here on this forum.Just remember we are a great community and will struggle to keep it that way!!Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/fly2/vas.gif][/div

[Guest]

Dear Mr. L.Adamson,I appologize if I was being slightly aggresive. When it comes to FLY! i am extremely emotional out it. The overpowering financial weight, and monopitalization of MS FS has put TRI out of the FLY! business unless a mirical happens. Hope you have a Marvelous weekend, and keep FLY!II ing.. heheh:-bluegrab

[Guest]

Larry, did you sign up as Capt_BOB? :-lolPaulhttp://www.advdigitalmedia.com/sig3.gif

[Guest Eagle]

I hope you are wrong, Captain Bob, when you say FLY is out of business. This is a great simulator and doesn't need to be put in the dumper.If others, on their own, can develop planes and scenery I would think that some third party vendors would be willing to do so (or maybe there just is not enough money in it for them).My thanks go to all those in the FLY community who want to continue with this simulator and develop quality add-ons. Keep FLYing!!

[Guest]

Eagle,I understand what your saying. My point is the financial muscle of MS will never be overcome thus, third party developers can not make a profit because there is not a large enough market. PMDG is about the only consistent commercial add-on developer for FLY!. It appears that PMDG needs additional support, thus they are diving into the MS FS 2002 market. My point being, it is a shame that such a monopoly exists that it scares away competion for creative, REALISTIC flight sim. development.When I state the FLY! is out of business, I am refering to that there is a 98% chance there will be NO FLY!III. Which is a shame, and there will be a MS FS 2003 or 2004 edition comming unfortunetly.CB

[LAdamson 240]

You must first realize, and probably already have, that FLY inititally gained some sucess against MSFS with it's unique approach to panels and systems. It was then farther enhanced with many creative 3rd parties supplying addons such as Ground, SKY, TerraScene, the V88's, & PMDG commercial airliners. It's "probable" failure has less to do with "Microsoft", than the circumstances leading to the very rushed & released piece of software known as FLYII. FLYII, as it sits on a store shelf, is very incomplete, buggy, & un-polished! It seemed to "undo" what we had in the first place! We all know the reasons........of which some are unfortunate, but it has little to do with the competitor! Many who have purchased it------ shelved it, pure & simple. Since you're so "down" on MSFS, as in you're "editorial" yesterday :), you apparently failed to take notice (or didn't want to)that FLYII & FS2002 both have their misgivings & great points. If only "bad" examples are used to make certain points to discredit a product, then all the rest of us who are long time simmers, rated pilots, etc, just look, smirk, & say "we've heard it all before". Just as some creative work is still being acomplished for the FLY series, there are many very creative talented & knowledgeable people working to farther improve the realism of the MS products. You're going to end up with some realistic flight simming with either sim... or both!L.Adamson

[Sonar5 3]

Hi Larry,Your education is coming along quite well. :-)However, (You knew this was coming) :-)I did read your entire thread above and the good points you made on Fly!II. But..... ;-)You Said:"Its "probable" failure has less to do with "Microsoft", than the circumstances leading to the very rushed & released piece of software known as FLYII. FLYII, as it sits on a store shelf, is very incomplete, buggy, & un-polished! It seemed to "undo" what we had in the first place! We all know the reasons........of which some are unfortunate, but it has little to do with the competitor! Many who have purchased it------ shelved it, pure & simple."I disagree with the words "probable failure", I think it is too soon to tell. That is like someone stating no one else should ever have built airplanes after Boeing locked up the market, and then along comes Airbus. And in the beginning they had many, many problems. MSFS has been around exponentially longer than the Fly Series.Also, although off the shelf it needs help, as you say, there are some good things available in Fly!II, and I only wish that those that did shelf it would take another look, as it is not the same off the shelf product as it was a year ago. (As long as they find their way here.) I wish We could find them all... ;-)There are many developers that work on FLY!II, PMDG is not the only one. You have ROTW that is simply amazing, and others too.The point is this:I wish we could have every person who ever had a concern with FLY!II after release a year ago would somehow find this forum. But that is not reality, but if it were, I am confident there would be quite a few that would discover what I have.IMHO, Both Fly!II and MSFS2002 stand side by side on my computer. I use both for different reasons, and I just don't feel you should go araound talking about this on the shelf sim here in this forum. Talk about the REAL VERSION that a lot of us fly almost every day for a bit, and then do your comparisons.Your coming along Larry, don't regress back from whence you came. :-)Best Regards,Joe :-waveBTW - We have our Young Eagles Rally Next saturday at JOT 9-2.http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

[michal 44]

>there are some good things available in Fly!II, and I only >wish that those that did shelf it would take another look, >as it is not the same off the shelf product as it was a year >ago. (As long as they find their way here.) I wish We could >find them all... ;-) >>Joe,I am not sure about it. Customers have uncanning ability to search, wait, try, re-try and get their software "fixed" through patches or other means. I bet the same is true abot FLYII. Whoever had any hopes for FLYII most likely had already found and applied all the fixes available. No need to look very far for these folks. But the fact is that FLYII remains crippled in many key areas today - this is less because of "bugs" but more due to certain design choices. This forum was visible busier in the good old FLY2k days - if you talk to some of these ex-FLYers you hear a common theme - there are just too many issues remaining and too few human resources to take care of them.Michael J.

[Guest Henri W]

Michael,You honestly have me lost here. What do you think are the key areas were Fly! II is still crippled? I am sure you talk to more ex-Flyers than I do, but I do not see what these serious issues are. BTW, I really do not want to start a Fly! II versus FS2002 discussion. IMO both have their strong and weak points and what you like most is simply a matter of personal preference.Henri

[Sonar5 3]

Hi Michael,Long time no chat.. I can appreciate where you are coming from as I am aware of your concerns posted prior to this.I guess I am an anomoly, but I suspect I am not.I just disagree that it is crippled in many key areas. Right now, I am in the middle of Terrascening a 50 mile area around my Home Airport JOT. That program is amazing. You speak of the design choices, and I say those choices are made in every single sim. I also suspect that quite a few people don't run a "Clean" System. On a clean system, (my definition), I feel Fly!II runs pretty darn good. Since I fly I do look for a systems capable sim. I get this with both sims. Hence the word Bi-Simual.I do not honestly believe that one is better than the other. I can only share my personal opinions on how the sims perform on my system. I have always tried to be honest.You see, by nature I am an Optimist. But, there are flaws in every sim. There are quite a few things that bug me in both Fly!II and MSFS2002. But not enough that make the sim unusable.I am just happy there are dedicated people of both that continue to develop. I am a leech in that respect as I have not not really contributed except for the help I have given here or there on occasion. I do what I can.It is my hope a developer would come along and make Fly!III a reality. Just think if Fly!II was repackaged, what would you include with it today. What add-ons, freeware aircraft, development tools, scenery that has been developed, etc....That is just it for me. I choose to look on the positive side and appreciate the gifts that I have received. I paid $29.95 for Fly!II and I paid $39.95 for MSFS2002 Pro. I have gotten hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of each, and some not so pleasant hours as well out of each. But I wouldn't trade the experience or even the friends I have made here by having a choice to not do it again. I would do it again, and I will be there for the next itteration of Fly, whenever that is. Thanks for listening to one of my more mild rants. (if you made it all the way to the end. :-) )Regards,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif