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Pascal_LSGC

What color is your water in Fly!2?

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>.. Oceanic waters also have little sky in them >>Michal >I have no idea what you're talking about. >If you live in an area where cloud cover is predominant , >you will (predominantly :-)) have grey ocean. >If you live in aa area where cloud free skies are >predominant you will (predominantly :-)) strong rich blues. Today, I made it a point to notice the colors of a rather large lake that I was working nearby. As I approached from about 10 miles away, it looked rather "grey", although the sky was quite clear of clouds. When just a few hundred yards away, but another angle, the lake had a blue appearence. Of course none of these colors match that "neon" blue I see in FLYII. So in the meantime, "grey" with the water option off............. does appear to be a better choice!L.Adamson

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Ben,How often did you look at water from a flying plane ? I urger you to pay more attention next time you fly.In the Bay Area where I live water is mostly green (and I mean green and often brown in some areas - no matter how much Sun there is. The weather factor is actually irrelevant. The lakes around Dallas are almost black in appearance - saw it with my own eyes about 2 weeks ago (and the weather was very sunny). The Missisipi river on that very same day was just grey/brown muddy thing.The only 'blue' and 'pretty' (but deep blue) water I have seen from a plane was in the Cancun, Cozumel Mexico area. Oh, South Lake Tahoe (the site of Avsim conference) has a nice blue water too. Such places are in minority however.You want to see some examples of excellent water coloring in FLY ? Try Rhein-Ruhr scenery for FLY2k - rivers, lakes all done superbly (not to mention the ground of course).Michael J.

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Guest captbulldog

Hi, sorry about my disapperence.>the houses are 'too few' and 'in the wrong places'.I placed them roughly based on the default textures in Fly2. When you upload your scenery I'll correct mine to blend the houses in with the new textures.And thanks for the comments :)

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MecoYes I do have TS2.1 on both. The reason I wasn't seeing a change in color as I 'stepped thro' time' with the 'T key' was of course owing to not noticing that I'd taken 'Water Effects' option off in the Graphics menu. I know what Colin means about the reflectivity changing with the viewing angle now-I had'nt paid much attention to 'water color' or the reflectivity before and was surprised to find that I got 2 different colors from the same scenery 'pod'. I guess when you have 'water effects' off then Fly leaves the setting 'where it last was'.

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MichalYou're using inland water as examples of ocean water blue - doesn't work. I live pretty close to the ocean at an altitude of about 100 ft. I see the ocean everyday from a 'final approach' perspective :-)On clear sky or small cloud coverage ( a majority of days ) the the sky is blue with clouds that look just like Fly!2 and the water is deep blue.I don't think Fly!2's awesome zenith,etc sky color editor ( ALT-7) has been anywhere near utilised to achieve its full potential but it comes close when you use :1: Brilliant blue sky - ocean, incl. Meditteranean :-)Ivan Aiello's "Real_sky3"" With this skies.ini you have a brighter sky, an high contrast intense blue and a very nice evening enviroment..... try this if you want to fly in a clear day:)"2: Inland - especially with Jure's Big MamasJure Dolanec's "BrightSky""The sky is much brighter at dusk/dawn , the pink is gone as well. While not perfect, this set does a good job on imitating the colors of the sky where I live. Thanks to Matt and Jaime, their skies.ini files were great help."Allen Kriesman has uploaded a program called FlyStart which enables starting Fly!2 with a skies.ini file of your choice.Ben

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How big is the scenery? I have an idea.

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>Michal >You're using inland water as examples of ocean water blue - >doesn't work. I live pretty close to the ocean at an >altitude of about 100 ft. I see the ocean everyday from a >'final approach' perspective :-) >On clear sky or small cloud coverage ( a majority of days ) >the the sky is blue with clouds that look just like Fly!2 >and the water is deep blue. That is fine but "deep blue" does not mean "neon-blue" and the latter has nothing to do with real water. And neon-blue is what you tend to get in FLYII.Also your final-approach look is a shallow-angle view which indeed can have a lot more luster. Water from altitude when looked at higher angles has much more saturated color, less reflection.Another point - most of my flying is above land and what I want to see is a good inland water. Deep-blue rivers are much further away from reality than grey oceans.Michael J.

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PrestonI've been working on just 1 quarter Globe tile (255-170NE to be exact)-that's Heathrow and Northolt (plus a couple of GA fields Denham and Elstree not currently in the Fly!database).However I'm tempted to get more of 'London Zone' out-by that I mean that I'll include the next tile along (000-170NW) which includes London City out to Southend. That includes North Weald with Stapleford.The decision I guess is down to Avsim server space and 'users' ability to download biggish files. Lots of UK guys still on 56k modems.What do 2 quarter Globe Tiles with 'water' and 'night' included add up to when podded and zipped?I've got Heathrow and Northold accuurately lined up now but alas 'City' is now 'in the water' and North Weald's westerly runway is too low and that's as far 'East' as I've gone.I'd therefore have to issue a DEX file to reposition them, taking care to correct any navaids as well.Oh well worth it be able to 'Fly over the UK' at last!

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PS-I see now that 'The Big Island' Hawai scenery recently uploaded was 193Mb when zipped-surely Avsim can't take too many of those? Also how do you get to 'process' that in PhotoShop? Todd's Terrascene was very clever in 'stitching together' lots of small files without needing a graphics program.DT

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This topic is quite interesting to me. I've seen water in a variety of ways in FlyII...some more realistic to my untrained eye than others. I'm working on scenery for San Diego and would like to get realistic looking water for my area. I came across this photo of a San Diego beach next to a bay. What do you think of the difference in water color? I admit this could be some strange characteristic of the aerial photo, but that ocean water sure looks like a kind of unnatural light blue. Compare it to the bay...a dramatic difference in color! I'd love to hear more clear explanation (not just ranting and raving) about what affects water color. It might help me choose the right colors for my scenery.

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Hi David,193mb, Bah, that's nothing :-)A full Globe tile when rendered can run to 800mb or so, just for 1 TGA image. Photoshop will open it for editing without problems, but extremely slowly. Once it has opened it and swapped it out then editing is OK.Paintshop pro, however, will not open images that large unless you have vast ammounts of RAM.The slicing and podding routines greatly reduce this huge file size, but a full globe tile with night and water can be around the 400mb mark.I have opened a TGA of just over 900mb with photoshop on a 1 gig Athlon and 384 mb ram. (more out of curiosity, than anything else)Colin

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DavidWhy not upload a jpg file with a TS project file? User have then to convert the jpg to tga (many free programs do it, a good one is IrfanView, only 700kb dowload) and lauch the ready-made TS project.That has been discussed before in this forum, but only Paul Van Roy used this process for the Netherland scenery.I made some tries, you can have files 5 times smaller without any loss of quality.Best Regards!Pascal

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I think thats a great idea, Pascal. I've been working on a few scenery projects (none are complete) and wondered what I could do to share them here. I hadn't considered converting the TGAs to JPGs. Thanks for the idea!

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Dan,This photograph is clearly missing some colors (look at the quality of the ground textures) - I would not use it as a reference.It is better to go to your local bookstore and look at some books with lots of aerial photography. It doesn't have to be exactly San Diego.Michael J.

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Dan,In my opinion, this beautiful blue has been added with image editing.We must know that most of the satellite or aerial images are "corrected", even (and especially) in books where you have beautiful landscapes, and it's not always clearly stated. And it's exactly for the reason we are discussing here: in people's minds, the water IS blue, and NOT dark grey. So let's show what people want.The phenomenon of reflection and refraction in water is quite complex, and I can't go into the details here. Basically, the smallest the angle of the viewer, the more the water reflects light. When seen from a vertical position, there's pratically no light reflected from the sky. We get the color of the light captured by the water and filtered by it. This light can takes many different hues, depending on transparency and particles floating there.I agree with Michael on this point, from up, the water can be blue, but very deep and not light blue, because it's NOT due to sky reflection on the surface, but to light REFRACTION into a transparent environment. And more often, the water tends to be very dark, or greyish green rather than blue. And I don't even speak about the surface (waves...)Fly! II doesn't take into account this natural fact, and simply reflects full or part of the sky color. It's quite realistic for far water, not for what pilots see just under their feet.There is one exception however: if the water is very transparent, not too deep, and the sand is nearly white, the water will appear turkish blue (tropical waters).To temper this a little, I must admit that we look more often at the horizon than at the "nadir" from the cockpit.Hope I was not too long!Pascal :+

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Pascal,I saw your post and got curious. I just tried converting the day, night, and water mask tga files from the Big Island to jpg files. Doing this and zipping them would have reduced the size of the AVSIM upload from 193 MB to about 100 MB. The reduction was probably not any more than this because the water mask was so large and much of the island at night was dark so the overall size was greatly reduced when I sliced and podded the scenery. Each file (before zipping) was 1.15 GB. Converting to jpg resulted in file sizes of 95.5 MB for day, 16.9 MB for night, and 12 MB for water (all before zipping).Don

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Hi Don!In fact I made a mistake in my calculation. It was just a fast try, and I forgot to compare the jpg and the pod ZIPPED. I realized afterwards that the POD can be more compressed than the jpg. I tried again, and I got a file a little more than 2 times smaller (and not 5x) with day scenery and water mask. This seems to comfirm your results. Nevertheless, this is interesting, if users accept to make their computer work a little before they get the scenery.I have also tried different methods to compress the unpodded files in the data folder, without any better result.Pascal

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