This is not a comparison question...FS2K2 & FLY!2

[misgav 2]

Hi,I'm not starting another 'which sim is better debate'.I've always owned several sims simultaneously, and enjoy each one for its unique qualities.I got FS2002, and now I'd like to consider FLY!2. I still have FLY2K on my hard drive, and I love it. Maybe it's time to move up.Two questions about FLY!2:1. Is the ATC the same old Texas drawl with two voices? I know about C4TO already, but just wonder about the out of the box ATC quality.2. Is the scenery accuracy as good as FS2002? By that I'm referring to geographical representation -Coastlines, rivers, roads, inland water bodies- are these VFR quality in FLY!2, or rough approximations.Your comments would be appreciated.Eytan

[Guest ben_]

EytanThe ATC hasn't been changed; but, Lefteris has written SquawkBox 3.2 which is very easy to use compared to Fly!2k or TOSScenery is the usual Fly! situation-out of the box is good to average ;-) ; but with Terrascene it is the best there is.3D models only exist at a couple of airports but there is a built in 3D editor which lets you place terminal, windsock and a couple of trees in the exact place you want them and be flying around them in seconds.see Randal Rocke's useful tips response herehttp://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...rum=DCForumID19As usual the ultimate beauty ot Fly!2 is in the cockpit. It's worth trying just for the new arcraft the Pilatus PC-12 and the Bell407 helicopter - although the freeware addon TBM700 from the french group is superb (not to mention their Warrior and PA19 :-) )And of course there's the Thunderstorm clouds of Jure , you get the idea. It's worth using this sim as well as any others you might have.Ben

[RandallR 444]

Eytan,1. Yup. But, C4TO has more voices and capabilities in Fly!II.2. This is a multiple choice answer - all of this is IMHO:--Overall scenery accuracy I would give to the other sim, but in some ways, Fly!II is very pleasing. The following comments will explain the whys and wherefores.--There are no roads and rivers at all in generic scenery areas in Fly!II. Terrascene areas, of course, are loaded with detail, but you only get a few of those to start with. Where roads do appear in generic areas, they are part of a texture pattern - more about that in a moment.--Some major rivers that empty into oceans or other large bodies of water are represented, but when they narrow down they're gone.--Inland bodies of water, where represented, appear to be accurate - but there are too many of them missing.--VFR - no can do in Fly!II unless you are in one of the Terrascened areas, along a coastline, etc. Cities are represented by fairly good city textures and are where they belong, but without the connecting highways and rivers, etc. it would be difficult to navigate without instruments in generic areas.--Pass over one of these city areas at night and the feeling is very realistic - really beautiful lighting.--Render an area with Terrascene with the Fly!II imported textures, and you've got VFR scenery that will rival a lot of areas in the other sim. When you do render TS in Fly!II, it will be at twice the resolution of Fly!2K, so it can really look good. Become skilled with custom water-masking, and your shorelines and water can be amazingly real.--Some coastal areas are absolutely on the mark, others are way off and "saw-toothed". Fly the Greek island areas after applying the global Update Patch, for instance, and it is actually quite beautiful.--The generic textures themselves are beautifully done. They look far more natural than many of the textures in the other sim.--The other sim (in detailed areas) looks great down low. Fly!II excels when you are at altitude - the higher you get, the better it looks.With Terramodels, etc., the airport and city scenery available is growing every day - far beyond what was ever available for Fly!2K now.Sorry about the long-winded reply, but I thought you needed to know the strengths and weaknesses.

[Guest PeterK]

Well...there kind of different animals to fly with...I had fly!..which just had awful scenery for VFR use until i Purchased a disk for $15 from the Flyscenery web site of the New England area...made a 100% difference in the sim,,No night texturesthough....???Jumping to fly2 the scenery for where I live matched the sectionalcharts so it is great for VFR use...the planes have becomeVanilla...no brand names except for the pilitus and the bell..the planes act tippy but they trim out and fly pretty good...As for fs2002 ..I have it..I like it..except for its bizzar crashesaround marthas vinyard..and a few other bugs too!I see fly 2 at the chain computer stores for $10..I paid $15 a yearago...how can you pass up a deal like that...Its a shame that Fly3 is a lost thought..In many ways Fly2 is somuch more realistic with the instruments and functional sectionalcharts plus some other toys that fs2002 needs more growing up..pete

[misgav 2]

Thanks everyone,I feel more enlightened now. It seems that FLY!2 is once again a basic package that can be enriched with the help of all the super enthusiastic FLY community members.it's like TRI knew that Terrascene would complete the generic scenery, others would do the same to clouds, water textures, etc.As to the bargain prices; seems to me that after dowloading the patches, charts, manual,extra scenery, etc, my telephone bill would be so high, it would cancel out the bargain price of FLY!2.Interesting point: I was on vacation in Montreal, and couldn't find one store with FLY. They said it wasn't worth having on the shelves! Shame.Fly safely and watch your height AGL.Eytan

[misgav 2]

Randall, Thanks for the detailed reply. You mentioned " water masking" to improve coast and ocean surface graphic quality. What is exactly this technique. I really dislike those screenshots of FLY!2 showing no wave breaking line and flat water texture. Does water masking help?Eytan

[RandallR 444]

Personally, I really like Fly!II's reflective water. You can adjust its appearance - the right turbidity is important. I prefer Andy Dale's VFR Ocean - very nice.Now, as far as the water mask is concerned, it's an additional process in the upgraded Terrascene - if you are rendering an area with water for Fly!II, you have the choice of rendering a water texture as in Fly!2K, but you would have no reflective, animated water in that scenery. If you use the water mask, a mask image is generated with which Fly!II sets up the water as reflective (or reflective-capable).With the latest Build release 230 Patch and the new TS, you can also manually edit the water mask in the same manner you edit the other image files (use Photoshop or any editor capable of working with TGA files). The mask is basically a black & white image to separate water and land - what some people may not know is you can edit the shoreline areas of the mask with different levels of gray. When you slice your scenery manually with this custom mask, you can get beautiful shoal-type effects. When I finally have the time to redo the Carolinas, I will upload a custom water mask with each scenery to help people get better water effects.

[misgav 2]

> When I finally have the time >to redo the Carolinas, I will upload a custom water mask >with each scenery to help people get better water effects. Randall, Looking forward to the above redone Carolinas. First I have to get FLY!2...I'm too lazy to figure out TS. I'm grateful for the FLY community for using TS to produce all those gorgeous sceneries. Columbia Gorge and Lake Tahoe are my favorites.Eytan

[RandallR 444]

Eytan,You're going to need to start up TS - because the resolution in Fly!II is doubled, I'm not going to upload completed scenery as the files would be too large. I will probably upload all the data files so you will have no online time while running TS, a custom texture pack you would put in, and the custom water mask, as that image would not be a large file.You would simply put these files into the proper directories of TS, choose the appropriate options I will provide, start the render and go to bed. Your scenery would be waiting for you in the morning.I will experiment with some compression schemes if I have to edit some of the regular image files, but that would still mean huge files to download and the conversion of the image files by the end-user. I'm hoping that won't be necessary.

[misgav 2]

Roger that. good luck to both of us!Eytan

[LAdamson 240]

As mentioned:Default FLYII won't have the scenery or water bodies as with FS2002. The area shown here in the first two pics is the same. The mountains to the left of the FS pic are enhanced by 3rd party elevations, while the lake is "stock". It's absent in FLYII. But then check out pic #3 to see what 3rd party scenery does for FLYII. It's rather sensational looking, if you ask me. The mountains & coastlines approach a photographic effect that's seldom seen in FS2002. The resolution is much better than what we had with the original FLY/FLY2K. The trick here is to FLY high though, as the resolution doesn't look as good at lower altitudes. L.Adamson

[misgav 2]

Yes, it's amazing, that last screenshot. kinda reminds of the default SFO scenery in FLY!2K, but as seen from at least 20000'.Third party sceneries make all the difference. Megascenery ( an Australian software company} produced a similar high quality, all satellite based scenery of Washington State for FS 98 & 2000. It's so good, you can spot individual buildings in downtown Seattle, Vancouver and Portland. Personally, I think only satellite imagery can produce true VFR conditions. I think sims in the near future will go that way.Until then, we have TS2 to thank for.Eytan