FSNav and ATC...

[Guest]

If I create a flightplan with FSNav with all the waypoints and climb rates etc.. and then fly either online or with FS ATC what happens when I start my decent a little bit earlier than directed when using the function "fly flight plan" from within FSNav? In other words say I'm flying to KMSY and 75 miles out my flightplan says I need to start my decent from FL350 but FS ATC doesn't like and tells me I'm below my assigned altitude. I can only imagine what would happen if I were online doing this.What are the correct procedures to do this. Surely if this function is available there must be a legal way to do this. Unless it's meant to be used only without ATC functions.I've also posted this question in the flight plan forum.

[Guest]

Hi,This would not a deffinitive answer to your quetion though, there will be few reasons for your problem.Most basically, FS ATC would not follow the flight plan develped by FSNav. Especially when you made up a complete flight plan incorporating STAR for an airport, that part is most likely omitted by FS ATC. This is because ATC always vector your flight to final approach to the active runway from 30 dgrees angle to capture ILS. Secondly, it seems that FS somehow calculats descent rate based on default rate specified in aircraft.cfg of plane you are flying with. At a given postion and altitude of your aircraft to the destination runway, FS ATC gives you instruction of descent based on distance and the descent rate. Assuming the rate was set at 1800 in the config and if you keep the descent with rate of 1500, it will end up too high to capture glideslope in case you are in ILS approach. If you attempt to descent at the rate defined by FSNav and if it does not match with its in aircraft.cfg, the gap always occure for both approach route and altitude.However, once you fly with ATC, the way FS ATC does seems more realistic than you fly perfectly based on FSNav plan. In addition, I often experiance that FSNav tend to bring my aircraft too low to capture glideslope. The best way using FSNav and FS ATC is to creat airport to airport flight plan(not runway to runway) with FSNav then export it to FS.Hope this helps.Yuki

[fspaan 1]

The tip about airport to airport in FS Navigator is the same I do also. Especially when using ATC via Vatsim or IVAO it is difficult to change all this. It's then better to do airport to airport. Charts like Jepessen or the ones in the file libraries are very handfull thenRegards, Ferry

[Guest gasebah]

That is only one of the many idiotic features of the FS2002 ATC. You cannot use Sid Stars, you cannot fly a flightplan with an FMC correctly etc. etc. etc.. The approch that the FS2002 ATC suggests is totally unrealistic. The descent rate is way too steep. The start of the descent is too late. You can easily get hit by other airplanes when there s alot of traffic. On busy airports you can go around like three times or you are out of fuel.But hey, until FS2002 we did not have an ATC at all, so let us embrace it.As I use to fly airliners as Dreamfleets 737 or the PSS Airbus I simply cancel my IFR flightplan in the vicinity of an airport and maintain VFR so I can make a precision approach with my FMC. Not pretty but that is the way it is.It is about time that soemone programs an addon around the FS2002 ATC that makes it more realistic. He could sell a lot of copies.Cheers,Alex

[Guest]

So basically I should either file VFR or cancel IFR on approach with FS ATC if I want to use the the FMC or FSNav?And online should I continue to use the FMC or FSNav? Online controllers shouldn't have a problem will they? IF FSNav says its time to decend should I request that from the online controller? Or edit my plan and wait for his instruction?I'm just curious what real flights do? B/c all controllers couldn't possibly know all flight plans.

[Guest gasebah]

I am not exactly a pilot and my experience with simulator flying is also limited. As far as I know your descent is programmed by the FMC using target altitudes at certain waypoints. Thus if the controller does not allow you to start your descent from the point you originally planned to, the FMC will try to intercept the target altitude later at this certain waypoint anyway as long as this is possible inside the operating limits. However that depends on the mode of descent you are programming in the FMC. I am not 100% sure about FSNav but I guess the program works the same way when you press FLY FLIGHTPLAN. Flying with the FMC that simply means that you fly with the altitude your controller gave you using ALTITUDE HLD. After your controller tells you to descent to let us say 3500 you dial that altitude limit in the MCP and press VNAV. Now the FMC will expedite the descent and will try to capture the originally programmed glideslope (as long as it is inside operating limits) until it has reached 3500 feet. There it will switch to altitude hold. You wait for the next controller altitude etc.etc.I guess this will not work with FSNAY unless you reprogram the whole flightplan.The problem with the ATC in FS2002 is that it will not only tell you an altitude but will also expect a certain descent rate (from the air file). If you are not using that descent rate (what for many reasons the FMC will not do, mostly because it is not reasonable) after a few warnings the ATC will cancel your flightplan. Apart frm that the main prob is that the ATC will not use the SID/STARS that you planned to fly (may they be planned by FSNAV or by the FMC) but will send you on 30 degree angle to intercept the localizer. So you are forced to do a "manual" ILS approach anyway. Not at all what FSNAV or a FMC are made for.Well, that was long post and I am also not sure if I got it all right. Maybe one of the pros can add some corrcetions where I am wrong. Hope that helps you.Alex

[Guest]

Don't cancel IFR. What you do is takeoff, climb, get on route, then when you're requested to contact the next center, accept the handoff, tune the center, but don't contact them. Don't contact anyone. Do your descent and approach according to your FMC or STAR, and when you're lined up on final, bring up the ATC window and it will have an option to tune approach or if your close, tower. Then contact them and you'll get landing clearance.BUT...for some reason I can't figure out, once or twice this didn't work for me, but about 100 times it did.michael

[Guest gasebah]

That is a good suggestion.Thx,Alex