How is Fly! II doing these days??

[Guest]

I haven't had any flight sim on my machine for a little more than a year. Needed rest :-). I see that a final patch has been released (Rich, you're amazing!). And there were a few patches before that. My question, which may be too broad, is, how's it doing these days? How much of an improvement over the "release" version? And, is third party developement strong for this title? I want to reload a sim again, and wondered where Fly! was so I may decide between the two. (I still mourne for the FU series :-().Thanks for the newbie FAQ's and such. I will need that if I reload this thing.

[Guest Josve]

Fly2 is doing great these days :)Try it and see for yourselves.......Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/zone.jpg ][/div

[Guest]

Me thinks little has changed since its release then. Thanks for the assistance. I'll pass.

[Guest Josve]

LOL a whole new world for Fly2 has changed since the release.Fly2 has become a new sim!! Better than ever!Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/zone.jpg ][/div

[Guest Dean]

>Me thinks little has changed since its release then. Thanks >for the assistance. I'll pass.:-hmmm Did you actually load the sim and install the updates?

[Guest]

No I haven't loaded it. The idea behind the post is to see what improvements had been made since its release. I was on the beta for this so I know how it was when it was released. I have been out of touch with the sim community and thought I could get some opinions.That didn't happen. I'm surprised with the responses. Apparently more than I had thought have left Fly! behind, or aren't as eager to respond to a post such as mine as they have in the past. Oh well..

[Leen3131cs 107]

Hi EdS(?)You wanted an opinion, here is one.Yes FLY2 is a great sim these days.Yes the upgrades made the sim reliable and accurate.Yes it`s going to be better every day.Yes there are many planes ,repaints an addware to come.Yes you should try it yourself and find out.And Ohh YES I think you have the wrong approach to things.There is nothing wrong with a friendly,positive attitude.Leen de Jager

[RandallR 444]

Ed,The changes, fixes, and improvements are so numerous that it would be difficult for anyone to list them all. The Fly! community is alive and well, with many new sceneries, utilities, special aircraft, DB adjustments coming out every day, etc. Here's what has been accomplished by Richard Harvey and a special beta team in the last year, resulting in 2 major patches, v230 & v240:--------------------------------------------+ Winds aloft heading and gusts were uninitialized, causing strange values in Weather Overview window. Fixed.+ "Other" weather dialog sliders would not update static text values; fixed.+ Using "Clear Existing Weather" from Load Metar dialog would not clear precipitation. Fixed.+ Serious crash/corruption bug in ATC system fixed.+ Version number now shown on opening screen.+ Using ATIS windows could cause crash situations when the window was closed. Fixed;+ Vector window reversed the "Use Icons" menu item context, showing icons only when turned off. Fixed;- Aircraft model parts were out of sync when switching from day->night or night->day; fixed.- Load METAR would crash Fly! when used; fixed.- ATC audio would interrupt itself before completing a verbal phrase; fixed.- ATC audio would interrupt scrolling text before all text was displayed; fixed;- Fixed shadow bug causing clipped shadows on certain large aircraft.- Morse code identifier changes: - New dot/dash sound effects, with improved playback speed for easier identification - If DME is present on VOR, VORTAC, or LOC, it will ident every 3rd cycle (if DME selected on audio panel) - Ident now support numeric morse digits- Navaid detail window now shows morse code ID, as well as navaid type.- Winds are now defaulted to zero knots, zero gusts, zero heading.- In the FLY.INI file, section [sIM], set windDefaultSpeed, windDefaultGusts, and/or windDefaultHeading to change defaults- Database Editor can now be accessed through the File Manager.- Added new runway marking code for Australian Precision Instrument Approach runways.This is identical to ICAO PIR except that the touchdown zone marker is a solid white block rather than the 'checkerboard' of the ICAO PIR. Coding by Chris Wallace.- Aircraft night model entries ('nlod' tag in .LOD file) now correctly draw pre-lit at night.- Instant reply buffer size can be customized - In the FLY.INI file, section [sIM], set blackBoxBufferSize=nnn, where nnn=bytes to record (100000 default)- Teleport will now maintain altitude AGL of the aircraft.- Fly! will no longer attempt to save default .SIT file on exit when in slew or edit modes.- Implemented T-VASI. This visual approach system uses the existing approach lighting database code value of 45. Default is T-VASI which are drawn on both sides of the runway; AT-VASI on either the left or right side is supporting by setting the glideSlopeLocation database field appropriately. Coding by Chris Wallace.- Removed sequenced flashing lights from Calvert CAT II and CAT I approach lights. Coding by Chris Wallace.- Database Editor now allows easier editing of single-byte char entries: - For decimal assignments, simply type the number using '0'..'9' - For hex assignments, simply type '0xnn', where nn is the hex value to assign (00..FF) - For direct character assignment, simply type the alpha character- Corrections and new functionality for the Directory window:- Country and State can now be selected as search criteria- Search button added so searches are only performed on demand (default button)- Close button is no longer the default button- "Contains" checkbox added to allow searching for a partial string in the name field- ID, Country, and State are now listed in the Navaid list- Country and State are now listed in the Waypoint list- Windows will now remember custom window sizes when closed (fixes Vector and Map windows).- Vector window would not correctly restore the icon/vector drawing mode; fixed.- "serchOtherDrives" misspelling in fly.ini has been corrected to "searchOtherDrives".- Non Z-buffered underlay objects can be designated with a tag. Underlay objects draw directly on theground after terrain drawing, but before any taxiways or runways are drawn. This object type could be used to draw a model-based underlay image underneath an airport.- Enabled general runtime exception handling for the fly2 executable.+ Windows no longer have "duplicate" title bar (Macintosh OS 10.2 or higher)+ Integration of new Apple HID Manager (Macintosh OS 10 or higher)+ APIFreeAirport did not release storage for ILS entries. Fixed. - Aircraft model parts were out of sync when switching from day->night or night->day; fixed.- Auto-tune would not work with ADF radio. Fixed.- Scenery system could "leak" memory by not freeing scenery models when appropriate. Fixed.- At non-US airports, runway IDs < 10 should include leading zero. Fixed. (coding by Chris Wallace)- showDistantClouds is an obsolete .INI tag that is no longer used, but would cause visual problems if set. Fixed.- Generic textures were missing opacity maps for water tiles. Fixed.- Ground night lights would not appear for some tiles, even if textures were available. Fixed.- Scenery models will now switch to night model versions in sync with airport lighting.- Windsocks were broken. Fixed.- Spurious "winrun.cpp" error on exit has been fixed.- Pilatus EFIS NAV button would cause an exception when pressed. Fixed.- Reciprocal runway ends did not draw approach light systems. Fixed.- Changed artwork for taxiway lights (blue and green)- Tweaked some UI artwork- New pod "patch.pod" added to SYSTEM directory- Basic flightplan printing now available- After creating flight plan, press Ctrl+P to print- Support for Z-sorted model objects- Only necessary for objects with opacity maps that "bleed through" other models- In factory.mlf (or [custom].mlf) file, new flag added for this effect: B=Z-sorted (back to front)- Optionally, add a tag inside the definition in your scenery file to activate this feature- Support for non-Zbuffered model objects- Objects should be flat, and placed on a perfectly flat surface (designed for markings/striping)- In factory.mlf (or [custom].mlf) file, two new flags added: X=no collisions, Z=no z-buffer- Optionally, add a tag inside the definition in your scenery file to activate this feature- Maximum display list items (visible models) increased to 12000 per scene- Added .INI variable to allow customizing of the distance runway lights "fade" into fog- In [Graphics] section, set runwayLightFogPenetration=XXX, where XXX is the fade distance in feet (1000 is default)- Environment "Overview" window now displays altimeter in both inches Mercury (Hg) and hectopascals (hPa)- Fly! now validates the render.ini file to make sure minimum slot counts are met.- Airport lights now properly fade into fog in low visibility conditions- Runways would stop drawing reciprocal end markings after crossing runway centerpoint; fixed.- Runway and taxiway lights now properly fog in low visibility conditions.- Runway markings on reciprocal end would draw in dark gray in low visibility conditions; fixed.- Fixed "rainbow" cloud discoloration problem due to RGB value overflow.- All default PAPI lights use a 4-light configuration instead of 2-light (coding by Chris Wallace)- Add sequenced flashing lights to codes 23, 24, 33 and 39 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented new versions of ALSF1 and ALSF2 which use CLightLine class (coding by Chris Wallace)- Added REIL to ALSF1 and ALSF2 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented standalone REIL (Runway End Identification Lights) (coding by Chris Wallace)- Added new .INI variable to allow Fly! to still operate when running in the background.- In [Game] section, set suspendOnTaskSwitch=0 to allow background idle processing- Airport beacons, radio towers, and moon opacity maps fixed. (Courtesy of Jim Kanold)- Runway and taxiway light artwork replaced.- Clouds are now visually "whiter" during daylight hours by default.- Cloud light scalars can be modified in the .INI file for dawn, day, dusk, and night:- In [Graphics] section, set lightScalarDawn=XXX, where XXX is percentage of light scalar (0..100; 50 is default)- In [Graphics] section, set lightScalarDay=XXX, where XXX is percentage of light scalar (0..100; 100 is default)- In [Graphics] section, set lightScalarDusk=XXX, where XXX is percentage of light scalar (0..100; 50 is default)- In [Graphics] section, set lightScalarNight=XXX, where XXX is percentage of light scalar (0..100; 25 is default)- METAR reported winds will now populate winds aloft to match by default.- METAR input routines converted meters to feet with incorrect formula. Fixed.- Cockpit camera head pitch is now saved to .INI file to remember last setting.- Environment "Other..." window altimeter slider no longer snaps to ticks, allowing finer control of setting.- ODALS lighting should flash in sequence, not in unison. (coding by Chris Wallace)- ALSF1 and ALSF2 length extended to more common 3000' (coding by Chris Wallace)- ALSF1 and ALSF2 sequence light extended to 20 lights to encompass full 3000' length (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented REIL (Runway End Identification Lights) (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting AI (Centerline & Bar), database code 17 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting BG (Left Single Row), database code 20 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting BF (Center Row), database code 21 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting BO (Center Row), database code 23 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting BP (NATO Standard), database code 24 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting BS (Center Row), database code 27 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting E (Two Parallel Row), database code 30 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting J (Calvert CAT II), database code 33 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting S (Cross), database code 38 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting T (Calvert CAT I), database code 39 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting X (Centerline 2 Crossbars), database code 41 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting B (US Configuration), database code 18 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting Q (Alternate Centerline and Bar), database code 37 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting O (Centerline), database code 36 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting M (Single Row Centreline), database code 34 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting N (Narrow Multi Cross), database code 35 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Implemented Approach Lighting BN (Former NATO Standard), database code 22 (coding by Chris Wallace)- Directional gyro gauge correction knob was broken in the Flyhawk (VFR and IFR panels). Fixed.- Runways now honor the glideslope angle defined by glideslope ILS entry tied to the runway.- Localizer/DME combinations were not shown in runway frequency list. Fixed.- DME components are now tracked independent of the localizer location.- Added new .INI variables to extend visibility of taxiway pavement, markings, and lights.- In [Graphics] section, set viewableTaxiwayPavementDistance=XXXXX, where XXXXX is slant distance in feet- In [Graphics] section, set viewableTaxiwayLightDistance=XXXXX, where XXXXX is slant distance in feet- In [Graphics] section, set viewableTaxiwayMarkingDistance=XXXXX, where XXXXX is slant distance in feet- In [Graphics] section, set viewableTaxiwayHeight=XXXXX, where XXXXX is AGL distance in feetEditor Fixes:- Rewrote pod file I/O routines to greatly increase speed of pod file creation.- Slicer now saves user visibility settings, then sets visibility to maximum distance before slicing.- Flatten airports incorrectly skipped airports that fall between elevation sample points. Fixed.- Slicer would modify graphic options on exit, affecting the fly.ini file for the Fly2.exe. Fixed.- Slicer progress dialogs message text reduced in length to prevent clipping of text.- Slicer now shows build version at launch.- Info panels now remove paths from the texture names so the entire name is visible.- Pure water (non-generic) tiles would appear as pure black in far texture. Fixed.- Slicer would sometimes generate mismatched tiles for 128x128 and 256x256 textures, causing squares to appear. Fixed.- Far texture creation incorrectly treated generic pure water tiles as opaque. Fixed.- Slicer now outputs a file "slicelog.txt" which logs the slice process for debugging purposes.- Slicer would incorrectly parse filenames in quotes by dropping the last character. Fixed.- Slicer no longer creates an "AutoSave.sit" file, which could crash Fly! II the next time it is run.- Support for new TerraScene import file format.- If you used "Goto Airport" from the editor with objects selected, Fly! would crash. Fixed.- Scenery import routine incorrectly skipped water creation steps. Fixed.- Editor Info window now shows texture name, elevations, and mouse cursor stats.- Editor will now quantize tile artwork to a user defined bit depth:- In [Editors] section, set editorSliceBitsPerPixel=X, where X is bit depth (valid values 5..8)- Flatten airports logic rewritten and integrated into single pass elevation import.- Slicer would show graphic options or intro dialogs if set in .INI file. Fixed.- Terrain data files are now deleted before attempting to slice a new area, solving some crash situations.- Added reference crosshair to screen "center" point- Terrain slicer now honors grayscale water images, so partial transparencies can be used.SDK Fixes:- Added new DLLView component to allow for custom drawing callbacks within a window view pane:- Implement TYPE_DLL_VIEW objects (sdk.h) in your .DLL files to support DLL view objects- Refer to the SampleView code samples for examples on implementing custom views in windows- Added new DLL callback 'DLLInitGlobalMenus' to allow customization of the global menubar:- From Python scripts, implement InitGlobalMenus to use this functionality.- Fixed SDK UI menu routines to properly work. WARNING: This requires a recompile of .DLL's using UI menu routines!- The following UI menu routines have been altered to accept a menubar ID: APIAddUIMenu, APIAddUIMenuItem, APIAddUIMenuSeperator, APIRemoveUIMenuItem, APIClearUIMenuItems, APICheckUIMenuItem, APIEnableUIMenuItem.- Fixed event notification system to properly report all events for windows created from the SDK/Python.- Added new file functions to SDK for accessing binary files contained within POD files: - APIGetFileLength will return the length of an embedded file (in bytes) - APIOpenFile will open an embedded file for reading in binary mode - APIReadFromFile will read a number of bytes into a buffer from a previously opened file (APIOpenFile) - APICloseFile will close a previously opened file- Added Gestalt functions to query/set/clear object traits: - APIGestalt will query an object trait - APIGestaltSet will set an object trait - APIGestaltClear will clear an object trait The Python versions of these routines are named without the "API" prefix (i.e. "APIGestalt" is "Gestalt" from Python)- Added APILoadSkyModels to load a custom set of sky variables- Added APISelectSkyModel to activate a specific sky setting from a previously loaded set (APILoadSkyModels)- Added APIRandomlySwapSkies to enable/disable auto-swapping random sky sets at dawnThe Python versions of these routines are named without the "API" prefix- Editor *.mlf files now support "Y" flag for non Z-buffered underlay objects- Wrapped all DLL calls with exception handlers to trap/report any errors in DLL callbacks.- Added SetWeather to Python system; pass in a WeatherInfo dictionary (defined in fly.py) and weather is set at users present position.- Added DLLKeyIntercept routine to allow DLL's to capture Fly! keystrokes and prevent further processing.- APIDefineKey did not handle the modifier value correctly. Fixed.- APIBlitPanelToSurface and APIDrawBitmap no longer leave a 1-pixel black border.- Key handler changes not always activated properly when added or removed. Fixed.- Keyboard callback routines had a bug causing DLL's not to get notification. Fixed.- DLLBeginFrame was not being called. Fixed.- APIDefineKey did not handle the modifier value correctly. Fixed.- Key handler changes not always activated properly when added or removed. Fixed.- The maximum number of active fonts has been increased from 20 to 40.- APIFreeFont has been added to the SDK to allow freeing an unused font.- APIGetFlyVersion has been added to report the current revision and build number of the Fly! executable.- DLLFilterMetar has been added to allow DLL's to pre-filter METAR files before they are processed by Fly!.- Keyboard callback routines had a bug causing DLL's not to get notification. Fixed.- APIObjectInAirport incorrectly searched airport database, causing inconsistent results. Fixed.- APIGetScreenDirect added to allow direct manipulation of the Fly! frame buffer (valid during DLLDraw* callbacks only)- APIGainFocus/APILoseFocus added to forcibly change the focus of a UI component or window- APIGetTunedType incorrectly returned TUNED_NAVAID when tuned to a localizer. Now returns TUNED_ILS.- Setting cursor to CURSOR_TURN_LEFT or CURSOR_TURN_RIGHT would crash Fly!. Fixed.- APISetWeatherInfo now sets winds aloft to match wind settings passed in SWeatherInfo struct.- Added APIGetWindsAloft and APISetWindsAloft to modify winds aloft at users present location.- Added APIGetLightScalars and APISetLightScalars to set cloud lighting scalars for dawn, day, dusk, and night.- Added GetLightScalars and SetLightScalars to Python system.- Python GetJoystickAxis incorrectly returned an integer instead of a float. Fixed.- DLLGetPopupHelp no longer requires a tag to be defined for the gauge for popup help to work.- Added new DLLView component to allow for custom drawing callbacks within a window view pane:- Implement TYPE_DLL_VIEW objects (sdk.h) in your .DLL files to support DLL view objects- Refer to the SampleView code samples for examples on implementing custom views in windows- Added new DLL callback 'DLLInitGlobalMenus' to allow customization of the global menubar:- From Python scripts, implement InitGlobalMenus to use this functionality.- Fixed SDK UI menu routines to properly work. WARNING: This requires a recompile of .DLL's using UI menu routines!- The following UI menu routines have been altered to accept a menubar ID:APIAddUIMenu, APIAddUIMenuItem, APIAddUIMenuSeperator, APIRemoveUIMenuItem, APIClearUIMenuItems, APICheckUIMenuItem, APIEnableUIMenuItem.- Fixed event notification system to properly report all events for windows created from the SDK/Python.- Added new file functions to SDK for accessing binary files contained within POD files:- APIGetFileLength will return the length of an embedded file (in bytes)- APIOpenFile will open an embedded file for reading in binary mode- APIReadFromFile will read a number of bytes into a buffer from a previously opened file (APIOpenFile)- APICloseFile will close a previously opened file- Added Gestalt functions to query/set/clear object traits:- APIGestalt will query an object trait- APIGestaltSet will set an object trait- APIGestaltClear will clear an object trait The Python versions of these routines are named without the "API" prefix (i.e. "APIGestalt" is "Gestalt" from Python)- Added APILoadSkyModels to load a custom set of sky variables- Added APISelectSkyModel to activate a specific sky setting from a previously loaded set (APILoadSkyModels)- Added APIRandomlySwapSkies to enable/disable auto-swapping random sky sets at dawn The Python versions of these routines are named without the "API" prefix- Editor *.mlf files now support "Y" flag for non Z-buffered underlay objects- Wrapped all DLL calls with exception handlers to trap/report any errors in DLL callbacks.----------------------------------Because of all these improvements, there has been a lot of activity, especially in new scenery rendering. TerraScene is now able to integrate directly with Fly!II for slicing, though it is still compatible with Fly!2K. Texture color saturation can be increased a great deal over the default and matched with the saturation output of TerraScene. New utilities for DB-editing have allowed a great deal of database updates, especially in the area of navaid additions and adjustments.Though they take a lot more time to "maufacture", some fantastic new aircraft have come out as freeware, one group in particular, ROTW, has been a major supplier of new offerings, including some startling sceneries and great new utilities.The latest fixes and patches have also allowed special features of payware aircraft, such as the B757 from PMDG to really shine.Basically, the changes, improvements and ongoing projects are just too much to even include in a post, but I will also mention that there are plenty of alternate skies and beautiful cloud sets available in the library.We're having a great time, and it will take a couple of years for all of this work to really come to fruition - we now have a challenge to use all of these new tools and capabilities properly to develop Fly!II even more.

[Guest]

Eds, I think maybe some of us are more enthusiastic about FlyII! now, myself included.As far as improvements I think there has been some in various areas. I know of one in particular is the smoother screen. I could be wrong but I think the dreaded 4 FPS is a thing of the past. Depending of course what type of system the user has. There are a lot of developers that are designing add-ons and scenery with this in mind. Were seeing more and more aircraft being designed. I'm awaiting the P-51 to be released soon. I know that everyone has their own opinion. Just as in everything else you cant please all of the people all of the time. :)The list of improvements and corrections entails close to 12 pages. I could list them here but I seriously doubt that it would be read or appreciated by AVSIM if I were to.I to was one of those who had concluded that we would probably never see a much needed patch to correct a lot of wrongs. Well I was wrong. Good Old St Nick in the form of Mr. Harvey & too many others to mention came through. No FlyII! has acheived perfection yet. But its back on my system once again I can proudly say. Theres my two cents worth. TonyFlyII! ver. 2.40Directx 8.1nVidia drivers 41.09ECS K7S5A SOCKETA /DDR/ATX MB, DDR SRAM 128MB PC-2100 266MHZ MEMORY ,AMD ATHLON T-BIRD 1.2GHZ 256K FSB266 PGA , NVIDIA GEFORCE2 MX-400 64MB AGP

[Guest]

Thank you folks. Thank you Randall!! Thats really where I wanted this to go. Acheivements by TRI and the users. Thats enough fixes for me to blow the dust off the box.Thanks again.

[Guest tonyc]

Now, come on. Do we to reply to your question when that question has a beginning and no end. Take a look at the hits on the avsim forum, the file library and decide. FLY2 is number two, and considering that it's number two due to the author having been very ill, it's something to think about.tony

[Leen3131cs 107]

Thank you Tony,I think you made more then one point in stating that.Life can be cruel.

[Guest]

This is interesting. I came here with a inquiry of what has transpired over the last year, and now I'm regretting posting here at all.I know there are loyal fans of these sims. I didn't make it clear that I wasn't looking for "Hey, it's Great" replies. I wanted to know what Rich and company have done since the release as well as the those users that also contribute. I am well aware of Rich's condition and have been for a long time. I know how the sim was released. I tried hard before its release to make it as good as it could be for YOU users. I put many painful hours in with this sim before it came out and after. I don't think I need to be slammed.Number two sim? Yes, I know, Xplane has a small following, FU is deceased. It has to be number two. Doesn't mean its "fixed". As I stated in my original post, I've had nothing to do with sims in the last year, so forgive me for not knowing what Rich and Co. released in the past year. But I did want to know. Because when I load a sim, it takes hours. I load alot, not just the release software, but many add ons. Do you think it was such a request that couldn't be answered?? Never ending?? Randall didn't think so. That was a great post. I wonder about posting here if I needed help with this sim. Not looking very good at the moment, eh?The tone here on the forum has changed. I can see that. Yes, life can be cruel. But, this was never meant to be a flame thread. Thanks again to everyone for you information, insights and opinions. It has been enlightening.

[Guest DSandberg]

Quoting you:Me thinks little has changed since its release then. Thanks for the assistance. I'll pass.All you would have had to do was the tiniest little bit of leg work, i.e. reading a few posts in this forum, to have figure out how far off base this statement of yours was. Since you apparently couldn't be bothered to do that, I don't see why you are surprised at the reactions of people to your at best ill-informed and at worst ill-willed slam against the many, many people here who have worked very hard to improve Fly II over the last year, starting and ending with Rich Harvey himself (bless his heart).And there's plenty of help here for Fly users, if you still want it.[br][br]http://www.usinternet.com/users/mystic/infomsig.gif

[Guest Josve]

I'm sorry if you got me wrong,but I was in the opinion that you just wanted to know if Fly2 was still alive........and yes it is :)"I wanted to know what Rich and company have done since the release as well as the those users that also contribute"Why didn't you just say so.....I'm sorry I misunderstood you question."The tone here on the forum has changed. I can see that."I don't think you are quite right here.I've been on this forum every day since Fly! was released,and I don't feel the same way as you.The community are better than ever.Developers are working hard to provide the community with high quality addons.So please forgive me if I offended you in any way.Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/zone.jpg ][/div