KDFW Sink-Hole Problem

[dkohl 0]

I have TerraScened the Dallas area. I then loaded in Wayne Roberts' new DFW airport and was all ready to taxi for takeoff until my 757 simply sunk into an invisible hole in the taxiways. After experimentation, I saw this happen at several places on the way from the terminal to the runways just east of the terminal area.I attempted to use Flattenator on the raw DATA files and re-pod the area, but I'm not sure I fully understand how to use the tool, even after reading the instructions from Harald Kraft.Anyone who has used TerraScene to create ground textures and has "fixed" the area - please post help instructions. I fly (in real life) to and from Dallas every few weeks. I was looking forward to flying my flight path today. Oh well. But maybe it'll be fixed soon.Thanks for the help.-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v41.09, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

[Guest tonyc]

If you follow the thread on Nice, you will see that a few things need to be done in order to prevent sink holes or water instead of land. You need to learn about Ground Transform, Terrashape and see the extent to which you can fix it. I still am experimenting with these program and don't know enough to help you.tony

[dkohl 0]

I read the NICE thread, including the additional related posts. But I think this might be a different problem. This problem, I would suspect, is occuring b/c of some bad data TerraScene is picking up and using to build the scenery. I can't be sure of that, but I'm going to test removing the TerraScene work I did, to see if everything appears fine. I'll post back as soon as I confirm.Now, I may need to manually edit something, but I'm just not sure how to do it, or for that matter, what exactly to do.Let's keep our fingers crossed. Maybe someone has seen this before and can better define the steps needed to fix it.Thanks though.-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v41.09, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

[dkohl 0]

I confirmed - this problem ONLY occurs when I have the custom TerraScenery installed. When I removed this and left the ground textures to the default, I can taxi anywhere. Wayne's airport TerraModels scenery has no affect either way.Thus, the problem described in the NICE thread does not appear to be the same problem here.Thanks though for trying. Any help is better than none. And I may just fix NICE while I'm at it!-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v41.09, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

[Guest]

I've seen this before, at KDFW, but I haven't taken the time to try to fix it. The problem is that KDFW spans two globe tiles (186152 and 187152), and for some reason the elevations at the edges of these two tiles don't match up when you slice them. What you should do to fix it (I think) is manually edit the elevations for the super tiles in which KDFW resides at the edges of those two globe tiles.As a quicker work around, you can use your terrascene scenery without importing any DEM data as the default elevations don't have this problem.nick

[Guest Dean]

Nick is on the right track. I ran into this problem when I Terrascened D/FW a few years ago. The sinkhole exists where the taxiway crosses the globe tile boundary. Fly attempts to match up the elevations along the edge where two globe tiles meet so they are seamless. The problem at KDFW is that the one of the runways is right by the edge of the globe tile so when the editor flattens the runway it offsets the matching of the globe tile seam creating a sinkhole right where you taxi across the globe tile border. I don't think this can be fixed. As Nick offered, using the default elevation data eliminates the problem and, since the D/FW area is relatively flat, you don't miss it.

[Guest Fly II Pilot]

I didn't notice this problem at KDFW but I did run into the same problem converting Simflyer's KIAD. In addition to this problem, I had a conflict with default scenery, that's why you'll see that there's also an .S11 file included. You can find the fix for KIAD here:http://members.cox.net/aamigorena/data.zipAs soon as I have some more time, I'll try to fix KDFW.Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

[dkohl 0]

I am pretty sure this type of problem can be fixed with Flattenator. The Advanced options appear to be able to address this problem. The only trouble is that even after reading the instructions, I'm not sure I understand what to do.Maybe we can get Harald Kraft and Ken Salter involved with this thread. I'll send them each a message today.-DK---David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v41.09, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

[Guest Dean]

I don't have any real experience with Flattenator to say one way or the other but if it functions as a bulldozer where the entire area along both globe tiles can be flattened to the same elevation so that the seam between the two is good and the runway is flat then it might work . Since the terrain elevation doesn't vary much in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area I'm not sure it is worth the work involved though. I took the easy path, I just TS2ed the area using the default elevation data and I can't tell the difference. It will be interesting to hear how this turns out.

[Harald_Kraft 1]

Hi DavidI got your email.KDFW uses the tiles 62/45, 63/45, 62/44 63/44 in global tile D186/152. (You find their elevation data in supertile 7,2 in the D186152G11.TRN-File)and the tiles 0/45, 1/45, 0/44 1/44 in global tile D187/152. (supertile 0,2 in the D187152G01.TRN-File).1.) open your DataD186152G11.TRN-File and search for -- super tile 7 22.) look, if this supertile contains high detail grid data. This section starts with -- high detail grid3.) Remove all sections in this supertile. Leave one ========== END OBJECT ========== after the elevation data before the next -- super tile-entry.4.) Do the same with supertile 0, 2 in the D187152G01.TRN-File.5.) Try, if the sinkholes are gone (Searchpodfirst=0)6.) If everything is okay, I will help you to edit the high detail grid manually.7.) If this does not help, change the elevation data for point 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20 (First point has index 1) in the DataD186152G11.TRN-File and for point 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18 in the DataD187152G01.TRN-File to the exact same number.8.) Try, if the sinkholes are gone (Searchpodfirst=0)Harald

[Guest]

Well, I'm home sick today, so I decided to mess around with this a little bit. I think I've got it fixed. I hand edited the .trn files that are under KDFW. The problem with Flattenator is that it doesn't work on 8x8 sliced scenery. At least it didn't before. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.I resliced the elevation data for 186152 and 187152 this afternoon with a 8x8 grid and a tolerance of 50. For some reason the slicer really screwed this up. Within 186152, g11.trn, super tile 73 some of the "sub-tile" high detail data didn't even agree with the super tile vertice elevations. The edges of 186152, g11.trn, ST73 and 187152, g01.trn, ST03 didn't match at 3 of the 5 shared vertices!I edited those to match up and did very little testing (too tired already), and I think I have it fixed. One area that is probably still a problem would be at the very south end of the airport (maybe outside the airport), but I don't think there are any taxiways/runways at the seam there. The reason this could be a problem is that I got 8x8 high detail in that tile in 186152 and no high detail in that tile in 187152. Because of that, they don't match exactly as I didn't take the time to hand code a detailed 8x8 area for 187152.Just to get you going, you can download the updated terrain files at:http://users2.ev1.net/~nik2/KDFW.zipIt is a little over 80Kb.While doing this test, I've also finally figured out where my shadows have gone. Has anyone else noticed that the aircraft shadow disappears when it is in any sub-tile (ground tile) that contains high detail elevation data? I've only seen that the shadow breaks in 2x2 and 8x8 high detail areas. I haven't checked 4x4 areas, yet.I'd like to write this up in more detail, basically covering the entire .trn file structure, and expand on Ken's work and the "flatten help.xls" file I found out there somewhere, but it's not going to happen today. :-erks Is there a table of the tile "types" somewhere?nick

[Guest]

Geez, I took so long typing that Harald beat me to it! lol Those super tiles should be 7,3 and 0,3 though.nick

[Harald_Kraft 1]

Nick, you are right. I must have some problem with counting from 0 to 7;) Harald

[dkohl 0]

Nick/Harald:Thanks. I am now in Dallas (on business) and went out on the tarmac yesterday with a shovel... just kidding.When I get back to NY, I'll attempt this exercise on my own. Not sure I fully understand what I'm doing, but I'll do what I can. ALL: If anyone else fixes the problem using these instructions, please post results. Knowning my work schedule and the fact that when I get home, the last thing my wife and kids will let me do is sit in front of the PC to try to do this, I think it'll be a week before I get this done.BTW: What does Flattenator do? I thought this was the purpose of flattenator.-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v41.09, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

[Guest]

This may be a simplistic explanation, but I'll throw it out there. ;-)Flattenator is an interface to help you edit the elevations in the terrain files. The problem is that it breaks if you try to edit a terrain that was sliced with an 8x8 grid. If you stick with 4x4 or below, it works great.nick