c4to is back , and with force!

[Guest tonyc]

Dr Tony Rider has done it again. FLY2 has a very powerful atc module that makes this sim so much fun to fly. Try c4to with Didier's VolNav and Infometar and you're off to a great experience.tony

[Guest]

Great news Tony, downloading it right now and eager to try out the new enhancements.Jean-Paulhttp://www.simvol.org/fly/avatars/logojp.gif

[Guest ben_]

Great news.Thanks Tony (x2 :-) )Ben

[Guest]

Thanks for the kind words. I am making changes to C4TO quite rapidly now. I suspect that I will upload another beta sometime midweek as time allows. Known problems in the current beta:Visual approach logic is broken.UNICOM logic is broken. Higher and lower altitude requests only semi-functional.These are all fixed and will be in the next beta.By the way, C4TO now correctly chooses frequencies for UNICOM and Clearance Delivery. It also chooses runways with ILS correctly. And if the winds don't permit the selection of an ILS runway, then C4TO now correctly and automatically switches to visual approach mode. I am also working on an ATIS simulation, but don't know how long that will take. Cheers, Tony

[Guest]

* Drools *

[Guest]

Hi Tony,That's great news; I can't wait. I tried it briefly last night, and here's what I found.I tried two flights. One from S05 to KLM in Oregon state, via the Rogue Valley VOR. After making the flight plan, and starting up c4to, I can contact clearance OK. But then he tells me to contact ground on frequency "000.0". If I use the auto-tune feature at that point, c4to seemed to hang. Resetting it with ctrl-alt-/, and starting over at that point makes the sim crash with the following printed in gtfo.txt:Msg: Fatal error caused by .DLL "systemmodulespcC4TO.dll" in DLLIdle routine.File: Dllman.cpp line 1619Time: Sun Mar 23 20:22:22 2003My second flight went somewhat better. Started in RDD going to KLM via some NDB close to KLM that I forgot off hand. Everything worked fine except requesting higher and lower alts was somewhat spurradic. Unfortunately I wasn't able to complete that flight for unrelated reasons.Hopefully my report is helpful...BTW, now that c4to is a real DLL, I wonder if it might become possible to use it as an engine to move AI aircrafts as well. Then we could have things like "hold short for landing traffic" actually happen when there is landing traffic, and so forth :)John/madmax

[Guest DNelson]

>And if the winds don't permit the selection of an ILS runway, then C4TO now correctly and automatically switches to visual approach mode.:-hmmm That logic wouldn't necessarily be correct in the real world. Presumably, since ILS approaches are in use, visual approaches may not be possible due to low ceiling/visibility. If the wind does not favor an ILS runway, several things could happen:a. If a runway more aligned with the wind has a non-precision approach, use that approach (assuming runway length and weather allow).b. Start the ILS, then circle to another runway, assuming circling weather minimums are met.c. If a and b don't work, land on the ILS runway if the crosswind and/or downwind component is within the pilot's and aircraft capability.d. If a, b, and c don't work, head to your alternate.I'm not throwing darts, just trying to add some real-world perspective. I know that both Fly! and C4TO have a number of limitations when it comes to air traffic control and IFR, and I appreciate your work.Dan

[Guest spenik]

Wow! I had no Idea so much was in c4to! I thought that perhaps it was a few more phrases that ATC would say, but this is in credible!I would be using it now, but I have a Mac ( and proud too! ) and if I am not mistaken, c4yo is only for PC. Am I?If their is, I would love to know where It can be found!By the way, Does any one know of a place I can go to to find out more about how real world ATC runs? I find it facinating...Lastly, if thier is a Mac version of c4to, I think a post to the Mac users form would be apreciated by the users their!

[Guest]

Thanks John.I'll try your first flight plan and see what's going on. There's likely to be some radio frequency that I'm misinterpreting.As far as the higher/lower stuff is concerned, I've fixed that bug and it should be working in my next submission.Thanks again,Tony

[Guest]

Hi Dan,Yep, there are limitations. Here's what my logic actually does:If visibility is less than 3 miles (I'm actually thinking about making this a configuration setting), then force the use of an ILS runway regardless of winds.Otherwise, use best runway. If best runway is nonprecision, then switch to visual approach. I know that this is less than optimal but there is no way to specify an alternate airport nor to know what the acceptable crosswind limits are for an aircraft (I could create a new database for Fly! II where this information could be stored and I have thought about it, but at the moment it's a pipe dream). The only thing I might be able to pull off is creating logic for circling minimums. I'll have to think about that one. Perhaps, something like:If visibility is less than 5 miles, use ILS runway XX until airport in sight then circle to runway YY. Should be reasonably easy to do. I might even be able to jury rig the current sound files to work with this type of approach.Finally, the notion of an alternate airport is not entirely out of the question. One idea I've had is to read Fly! II flight plans so that the destination airport is actually the alternate airport just in case the navigation fix immediately prior to the destination airport is also an airport. In this case, the airport specified as the last navigation fix will be the real destination airport, at least as far as C4TO would be concerned. If I were to do this, then I could be far more realistic as regards airports that are socked in. However, if both the primary and secondary airports are socked in, I get the same problem I have now--i.e., no way to redirect the aircraft to an acceptable alternate. Cheers, Tony

[Guest]

The Mac problem is a concern. I don't have one and don't know anyone who does. If someone out there is a Mac programmer with good C++ skills, I would be willing to work with you on porting C4TO to Mac. Let me know...Cheers, Tony

[Guest ftessler]

Tony,I'll ask over on the Mac forum. (Unfortunately, my major programming days are behind me.)Thanks.-Franklin------------------------------Franklin TesslerDP 800Fly! for Mac Co-moderator

[Guest tonyc]

tony,1.For the alternate airport, you may want to tie it to VolNav. Let's face it, an IFR flight plan requires that the pilot pick a suitable alternate. Together with VolNav, I use Infometar and the "Persistent" mode in FLY2 to fly in a virtual(real) environment. I create my flight plan with VOLNAV, including my return flight if Iam flying a commuter typical route, add an Infometar generated weather and, with autoweather, I have a great environment in which to fly. C4TO simply adds fantastic ATC in this Persistent world. I've tried using VOLNAV with C4TO and so far it works beautifully. With all of these add onswe may be looking at some great total solution. I hope David Sandberg works on Infometar to add even more functionality to his program. tony

[Guest]

Tony,Same here for the "000.0" problem as well as the crash after resetting even if I do not get an error message (XP home related ?)My first flight was from LFPJ to LFMP and the second from LFMT to LFBOand it happened on both flights.I only used Fly!'s flightplanner and not VolNav. The database was updated with ROTW's DEX files for France. Could it be possible for the next release to create a routine which would automatically replace a "000.0" frequency by a fake but tune-able one until you find a solution ? Keep up the great workCheersJean-Paulhttp://www.simvol.org/fly/avatars/logojp.gif

[Guest]

Hi Jean-Paul,I've already found the problem. Essentially, the airports in question are uncontrolled without ground control or a tower. In these cases, the only frequencies available are CTAF or MULTICOM. I've changed the logic so that in the case of departure from an uncontrolled field, you must tune your radio to the appropriate CTAF (or MULTICOM) frequency and use ALT-1 to declare that you are taxiing to the active, ALT-4 to declare that you are taking the active, and ALT-5 to declare that you are clear of the active. When you are 2500 feet AGL of your departure airport, you can switch to center for en-route vectoring. Clearance delivery continues to be available with the fabricated frequency 118.3 (if necessary). Listen for verbal clues in the clearance delivery response. I'll upload a new version tonight.Cheers, Tony