Should we attempt to get Fly! II certified as a PCATD?

[Guest Fly II Pilot]

I think the only thing that would prevent the certification is a program that will check the reaction time of the control input. Maybe this can be accomplished with a DLL and I'd like to know what Here's the link to the Advisory Circular and, unless I'm missing something, this seems to be the only thing we'd need.What do you think?Regards,Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce4 Ti4600 8xAGP 128MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USBhttp://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/banneraa.jpg

[zfehr 1]

Excellent idea. I have felt that Fly is the perfect sim for flight schools for a long time now.Zane

[Guest Chris Wallace]

Hey Alex,I didn't see the link...but are your referring to FAA AC 61-126? This is a fairly involved process. First Fly! would need to support authorized hardware such as Precision Flight Controls gear. I actually wrote drivers for both Fly! and Fly! II for PFC, but due to various commercial reasons they were never released. On the software side, there are additional requirements specifically in the "Instructional Management Requirements" section that would need to be developed too. Being able to record the vertical and horizontal flight track, for example. Then each panel would need to be certified to meet the resolution and accuracy requirements. This last one isn't a big deal; the 172 IFR panel probably meets them. But other panels would need to be individually certified as well. Even after all that, I think there is some $$$ that needs to be paid to various government agencies to actually get the certification.Having said all that...in my opinion, because of the advanced SDK capabilities, both Fly! and Fly! II had the potential to be able to meet AC 61-126 with a bit of work. Unfortunately it was not a priority with TRI to encourage this.Chris WallaceOttawa, Canada

[Guest Fly II Pilot]

Chris,Yes, it's FAA AC 61-126.Why couldn't we use just the CH Flight Yoke USB, the CH Pro Pedals USB and the Go Flight GF-AC system, which are all compatible with Fly! II? I think this covers everything required by the FAA or am I missing something?For the Instructional Management Requirements I can think of one piece of software that would be really handy... Fly!2Track... (does that ring a bell? ;-) ).If "somebody" with the necessary programming skills (which I lack) can take care of the two or three issues that you mention, I volunteer to at least find out the exact process and the certification cost. If it's too much for me to digest, we can always try to raise some money within the Fly!II community... That would be a hell of an accomplishment...Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce4 Ti4600 8xAGP 128MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USBhttp://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/banneraa.jpg

[Guest Chris Wallace]

>Why couldn't we use just the CH Flight Yoke USB, the CH Pro>Pedals USB and the Go Flight GF-AC system, which are all>compatible with Fly! II? I think this covers everything>required by the FAA or am I missing something?There's a difference between meeting the requirements and actually being certified. Like if you knew perfectly well how to drive a car, but never actually got your driver's license. I don't think any of that hardware is actually acceptable for certification as PCATD with any software, though I could be wrong.>For the Instructional Management Requirements I can think of>one piece of software that would be really handy...>Fly!2Track... (does that ring a bell? ;-) ).Ah, you've seen through my cunning plan :-) I really thought that the built-in UI widgets in Fly! II would make finishing FlyTrak a lot easier, but that turned out not to be the case.>If "somebody" with the necessary programming skills (which I>lack) can take care of the two or three issues that you>mention, I volunteer to at least find out the exact process>and the certification cost. If it's too much for me to digest,>we can always try to raise some money within the Fly!II>community... That would be a hell of an accomplishment...I always thought so, but a few years ago it certainly seemed like I was the only one. Knowing the GA flight sim community, I think Fly! II could have gotten a lot more buzz, and sales, if TRI were able to put an "FAA approved" sticker on the box, but it just wasn't a priority for them. Consider also that MS could go the same route, and they've chosen not to (for now).Chris WallaceOttawa, Canada

[Guest Fly II Pilot]

Chirs,Today I spent about 1 hour on the phone with Mr. Lauren D. Basham who's pretty much the FAA's PCATD expert. He is deeply involved in the certification of PCATDs and has written several articles about this.Regarding the possibility of getting Fly! II certified, here are some of the things that would need to happen:- Obtain a license from TRI to let a PCATD manufacturer use their software as a component of the PCATD (doable)- Get a PCATD manufacturer to want to incorporate Fly! II as the software used to run the PCATD (tough)- Create the necessary drivers and interfaces for a given hardware so that it can communicate with Fly! II- Submit all of this information to the FAA for their in-house review- If it qualifies, the FAA conducts an on-site test for final approvalSome of the requirements:- The mouse can be used just for configuration, it can't be used (or needed) once the aircraft is started. This means that an external console is needed.- All the knobs, switches, levers, etc. must be realistic in shape and function. This is why the CH Flight Yoke would not qualify.- Need to be able to track and plot position and certain parameters (as mentioned earlier).- The software must do a self check to make sure that all the approved components of the PCATD are present and funcitioning properly. To avoid the possibility of someone taking a shortcut and replacing a certified component with a non-certified one.- The NAV/COM database must be FAA certified and updateable on a regular basis.The FAA does not charge any money to do the certification so the only costs would be those of acquiring the necessary hardware (unless loaned by the manufacturer) and shipping charges.Having said this, X-Plane is not really certified as a PCATD. It is Fidelity Flight Simulations (manufacturer of PCATDs) who's obtained certification for a package that includes a modified version of X-Plane as the software component. X-Plane by itself is not certified, in fact (as mentioned) it doesn't even seem to be the exact same software. However, they're using this certification to their advantage as a selling point.Do you still have the PFC drivers for Fly! II. The only reason why I ask is that Lauren said that they have two sets at the FAA. If Fly! II could interact with this hardware, they'd like to to test it and give me some feedback.Last but not least, the FAA is rewriting the whole PCATD certification process and requirements. Although it hasn't been published yet, the FAA is no longer accepting certification requests under the old AC61-126.Regards,Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce4 Ti4600 8xAGP 128MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USBhttp://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/banneraa.jpg