Sahara - Attitude indicator

[Guest 3cffts]

Does anyone know if it is an easy thing to substitute the attitude indicator in the Sahara with the one that comes with the Skyhawk? And if this is done, will the auto-pilot flight director indicators still function?The indicator on the Sahara has no lubber lines, whereas the Skyhawk does, which makes instrument flying much easier and more pleasant.It would also be great if the display could be made a bit larger!I still prefer FlyII to MS2004! If FlyLegacy can update FlyII that would be terrific !!

[KenWood 5]

You could swap it out, although whether it is "easy" or not kinda depends... ;-) I am not sure how well it would look, and size is pretty much locked in when using the default gauges. You would need to unpod both aircraft first, then in the sahara aircraft's data folder, edit the panel file - something like TRIXXX.pnl. You would need to find the correct reference section for the pilot attitude indicator, and swap out the pbm and pbg files for the sahara with the skyhawk's. Final stage would be to test location of the gauge - which means starting the program, check the needles, etc., quit program - make adjustments in the .PNL file, restart, etc... all trial and error, I'm afraid. :-hahBut hey! To be honest, it is a fun learning process, and can be quite rewarding once you get all the pieces together and working! If you want to give it a go, holler back in the post andf one of us will do our best to assist you.Cheers! Ken Wood :-sun1http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/bannernewkw.jpgGateway 700X; Intel P4 2.4GHz; 512MB RAM; NVIDIA Ti4200 4X AGP 128MB; SB Audigy; Thrustmaster TopGun Fox 2 Pro Shock

[Guest 3cffts]

Many thanks Ken. It looks like a fall/winter project. I may well be looking for help.Cheers!Brian.

[KenWood 5]

Hi Brian, If and when you are ready to dive in, just let us know here, and we will be ready to assist where we can. :-) Always nice to have someone new delve into the inner workings! Cheers!Ken Wood :-sun1http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/bannernewkw.jpgGateway 700X; Intel P4 2.4GHz; 512MB RAM; NVIDIA Ti4200 4X AGP 128MB; SB Audigy; Thrustmaster TopGun Fox 2 Pro Shock

[Guest 3cffts]

I have taken a peek at the files in the FLYHAWK.POD and the ACCOMMON.POD but not extracted any as yet because am not sure which files contain the attitude indicator information that I need. There are about a dozen files that seem to be relevant. I am looking for a little guidance. Is there an index published anywhere that tells exactly what information is in each .pbg and .pbm file?Cheers!Brian.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Brian,>Is there an index published anywhere that tells exactly what >information is in each .pbg and .pbm file?Not as such .... but TRI did an excellent job of using REM statements in their files that it's really not difficult to find out the information you want.What are .pbm and .pbg files? Without going too deep into the technicalities they are simply graphic files, like .jpeg and .tif files. Anything coloured pure black in either of these files will be displayed as transparent in Fly! II. What's the difference between .pbm and .pbg files?A .pbm file only contains a single image and is used for such things as static views (eg. panel background or cockpit interior views etc.)A .pbg file contains multiple image frames - 2 for a simle switch up to 361 for an instrument needle pointer - and is used to denote either movement (eg. on-off for a switch) or change of state (eg. on-off for a warning light).The single file that controls everything that is displayed on the instrument panel is the .pnl file.Below is an extract from the attachment to this post which is in itself an extract from the Flyhwk00.pnl (front panel) for the flyhawk aircraft. You can see that there are 5 files in total used to display the instrument. If the file is an .pbm it is a stationary part and if it is an .pbg it is a moving part.Notice the rem statements pretty well describe what part of the horizon instrument the file is representing. ---- football filename ---- ahoriz_b.pbg 2 3 ---- horizon needle filename ---- ahoriz_c.pbm 2 3 ---- inner rim filename ---- ahoriz_d.pbg 2 3 ---- outer rim filename ---- ahoriz_f.pbm 2 3 ---- front plate filename ---- skyhatti.pbm 0 0 I hope that I haven't been patronising - many apologies if I have - didn't mean to but am unsure of how much you know. As you delve deeper into the structure of Fly! II you will find that modifying instruments is not as daunting as at first it might appear. :-)Hope the above helps in some small way.Any questions? Don't hesitate to ask.Cheers,Roger

[Guest 3cffts]

Hi Roger,Many thanks for the info. I am new to this so greatly appreciate your help. I have been a fan of Fly! for years and would like to get into some artificial horizon changes as I really like the instrument flying qualities of Fly II! I will likely have more questions in the future but for now will work on what you have given me .Cheers,Brian.

[Guest 3cffts]

This is all new to me and I think I need a little more guidance if someone can help me. Correct me if I am wrong but the Sahara .pnl files are the same as the old Malibu files? ... and are found inHarvey.pod/data/MALI00.pnl.Likewise the Barracuda files would be the same as the old Navajo .pnl files? ... and are found in Java.pod/TRI2.pit/data/TRI.pnl?I first would like to add the flight director bars to the co-pilots attitude indicator (that has the lubber lines). I then would like to copy the co-pilots A/H to the pilot position. My question is will that work, and if so, how do I add the 'sub-system message' to the co-pilots program?The Navajo pilot posn is as follows: ---Subsystem Message ---- --- autopilot --- AXIS --- user data --- HARDWARE,OTHER --- user data --- _FCSThe co-pilot posn is as follows: att2 pichCan I combine the above two?, and if so, how? If it is possible to do the above, Is it also possible to add in the ahoriz_g.pbg file and the navjatt0.pbm file while retaining the front plate file navjatt2.pbm to the list of .pbg/.pbm files for the co-pilots part of the .pnl file?Many thanks Brian.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Brian, I'm way out of my depth here mate. I'm not a programmer but as I understand it each gauge in Fly! II has its own four letter UNIQUE identifier and the FUNCTION of the gauge is fixed. If you want to add a NEW FUNCTION to a gauge you would have to make a new gauge with it's own unique identifier. However the gauge coding calls for graphic files (.pbm/.pbg) to be displayed to the screen and these we can play around with to our hearts content.If we want to a) add lubber lines, pitch or bank angle markings.:( add horizontal pitch lines to the ballc) change the colour of the ball or face plate.d) change the shape of the face plate circular or square ( even triangular :-) )e) change the size of the instrument (some of the instruments are scaleable) This is done in the .pnl file not one of the graphic files...... get the idea!. For any GRAPHIC we can modify the relevant pbg/pbm files.This would be your best/easiest way to achieve the markings your initial post was referring to.As to your questions.1. It is perfectly safe to swap pbm files. You may not like what you see. There could be small size/colour differences, but it won't do any harm. If you don't like what you see simply replace the original pbm file.2. Simply ADDING a pbg file I don't think will work. The unique gauge would not be expecting it. Suck it and see :-lol Let us know the results. however to add flight director bars (FUNCTION) - NOT EASY ! for me.If you absolutely MUST HAVE FD bars then go back and read Kens reply about completly swapping the AH. That would do the trick.If you would like to get a better understanding of gauges I can recommend "Fly! II Gauge Reference Guide" by Chris Wallace. It covers every gauge on the TRI default aircraft. It's in the library under either Development or Miscellaneous. Cheers,Roger

[Guest 3cffts]

Hello Roger,Many thanks for your words of wisdom! I searched every way I could think of to find Chris Wallace's 'Gauge Reference Guide', but had no success. Would it have been removed from the file library?Cheers,Brian.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Brian,I went looking for it myself and also couldn't find it. Very strange? I have two hard copied files: didn't keep the files on disk after I'd printed out the hard copy. 1. "Fly! II Gauge Reference Guide" is about a hundred pages. 2. "Fly! II Subsystem Walkthrough" about 4 pagesLeave it with me and I'll investigate further as it is a great resource for anyone wanting to get into panel design.Sorry for the stuff-up.Edit:: Just found it. :-)Search for "Fly! II Design Notes" by Paul Russell and Jennifer GossNope - sorry :-( this is not it but does have a lot of good info nevertheless.Cheers,Roger

[Guest 3cffts]

In addition to the above guides that would be great to have, I am also having no luck in finding "FlyGraphics" in the AvSim file library. I would like to have a peek at the bmp images in the .pbg and .pbm files.Does anyone know how I can get a copy of this program?Cheers,Brian.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Brian,http://library.avsim.net/index.php?CatID=flydevIt's under Fly! Development folder ( NOT FLY! II )Cheers,Roger

[Guest 3cffts]

Many thanks again Roger. I have the file now. However, there must be a glitch in my machine. No matter how I search using the Library index, I come up with a blank every time I search for "flygraphics". I finally found a reference in an old forum with the library ID No. =9626 and I used that to get the download.Is there any chance someone would have the library ID No. for the Gauge guide that you mention above?Cheers,Brian.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Brian,No mate it's not your computer! :-) it's you! :-lolComputers have all the intelligence of a very stupid worm. :-lolPedantic little creatures.Try searching for eitherfly graphics (note the space)flygraphics10.zipin the Fly! (not Fly! II ) development folder in the library and all will be well.I've just had a brain flash :-) I think I may have downloaded the reference files from the Fly!Wikki. The site is down at the moment so I can't check but as the site is run by Chris Wallace and he is the author of the files so its highly likely.Below is the URL for the wikki. Try it and don't be put off if the site is down; just try again at a later date. If after a week or so you still get no joy let me know and I'll get in contact with Chris.http://flylegacy.dyndns.org/twiki/bin/viewCheers,Roger