Fly! and 970

[Guest ftessler]

Barry,I'm pretty sure that I tried running Fly! 2k and II under Classic at one point. I think I was able to get them to launch, but not much more, possibly because some of the required OS 9 extensions would not function under Classic. I can give it another try, though.AppleInsider (www.appleinsider.com) just posted a rumor about a G5 update in January (dual 2.5 GHz). I don't know if that's accurate, but I would expect some sort of update by March. It might be a good idea to wait at this point, as the current G5's have a few teething problems.-Franklin------------------------------Franklin TesslerDP 800Fly! for Mac Co-moderator

[Guest bwilliams]

The G5 dual processor arrived yesterday and I spent most of my time partitioning the drives for Panther and Jaguar, and networking files from the G3 to the G5. I'll install Panther later today. Fly II works fantastic on the G5 and OS 10.2.7 (G5)!!!!!!! Awesome. Amazing. Incredible. And, the dead Sidewinder II mysteriously works again. It doesn't get any better than this.First, you just about can't slow Fly II down on the G5. I bumped up scenery to max radius on everything and it is perfectly fluid and smooth. Basically, there are no frame rates. It looks too real to think in terms of frames per second. It did start to show a little frame rate slowing when I added 3-5 aircraft, but I set that back to zero after testing it. The max radius settings are a bit too much anyway in my opinion, but it doesn't slow down Fly II at all. Everything is super smooth and super fast. It is more like the real thing than we have ever seen in Fly II. It is a true experience. After all the time we spent testing Fly II and flying the release versions this is something new and awesome. There really isn't a way to accurately describe how good Fly II is on the G5.Flying is a new experience altogether. I found that I was making the most beautiful landings ever. The smallest tweaks on the joystick made me feel like I was really flying again. It is like a whole new simulator on the G5. You can really appreciate the quality programming and physics as everything is so realistic that it is spooky if you have flown real planes. This is a time where I really would like to thank Rich again. The speed of the G5 DP and the incredibly realistic physics of Fly II work well together. I was noticing the smallest things that I never saw before. One wheel touchdowns behave differently. You can honestly feel the plane now. Touching down the nose wheel does new things. There is so much that I misssed with the slower processors.I changed over to the Bell and was instantly flying, hovering, and doing some of the things I used to do in real Bell OH-58s. Until yesterday I had thought I was just rusty after not flying for about 10 years. Not true at all! The inherent frame rate lag was what was making it tough, even though this was mostly invisible to me with the G4 upgrade to my B&W G3. The Bell flys flawlessly on the G5. I was back to flying around without any problems. Hovering, landing, taking off, etc was a snap. Intuitive flying is totally realistic.I think the big thing about the G5 DP and Fly II is that there is so much quality in Fly II, hidden in there waiting for faster Macs. I saw where Fly II will always be a fantastic simulator. I can't imagine it getting any better than this.I'll test Fly II on Panther after I do all of the installing and updating. I'll post to the forum tonight or tomorrow if all goes well. Sorry to gush so much over the G5 and Fly II, but I am amazed at how good it is. Fly II won't be gathering dust around here.Barry WilliamsG5 2 GHz dual processor with 512 mb RAMRadeon 9600p.s. I am using the B&W Studio Monitor for now, so that probably helps frame rates some over the flat panel displays. Also, there are tests that show the G5 speeds up a lot with 1 gig of RAM.

[Guest bwilliams]

I installed Panther today and Fly II works fine. I did notice that it was not as smooth as 10.2.7, but I'll have to compare the OS's more. My general feeling was that Panther didn't do as well as Jaguar.One thing about both on the G5 DP is that boot times are down to about 30 seconds for Fly II. No problems noted except that sound sometimes becomes 'stuck' when using the maps windows. Hitting the views key or instant replay resets the sound for the most part.Thought I would let the forum know.Barry Williams

[Guest Allan Jones]

That's EXCELLENT news, Barry! There's hope. Maybe what Rich H said about the low bus speeds on the pre-G5 Macs being the sticking point was on the mark.Good hearing from you, old friend. How's the family?Regards,

[Guest bwilliams]

Allan,Good to hear from you again. The family is doing a little better. My wife had some hospital time in Sep-Oct but she is on the mend now. I'll be glad when we don't know so many doctors!I did a lot more Fly II'ing under Panther 10.3.1 and it is ultra smooth too. I guess 10.2.7 and Panther are about the same now. I'm having a great time with it and the high frame rates. My sound problem is the alarm when around 200' for landing. That sound puts it into a loop that only instant replay fixes. I can't remember how the sounds are done, so I need to poke around some.Rich was right, or so it seems. The G5 DP has massive bus rates. This is all under 32 bit and single processor, so when the 64 bit OS comes out it should really scream...if if Fly II works.By the way, are people using TerraScene files now? I missed out on how that works. Can you let me know what to do, what to get, etc? I'm really behind the times.I downloaded a neat new flight sim called Flight Gear today. It isn't compiled and you have to run it under Terminal. The screen shots and video clip on the website look very good. I don't have the website but do a search for Flight Gear and you should find it. I couldn't get it to run this morning. Barry

[Guest ftessler]

Hi, Barry.Thanks for the posts. This is much better news than I expected, and it's another reason for me to get a G5. :) With the flurry of rumors about faster G5s, I'm going to wait until at least the first quarter of 2004. I'm pretty sure that we'll be seeing dual 3 GHz machines with 1.5 GHz FSB's by this time next year. Eventually, we'll get to a point where a faster computer doesn't make a difference.Take care,Franklin------------------------------Franklin TesslerDP 800Fly! for Mac Co-moderator

[Guest bwilliams]

Franklin,Interesting points about the 3 GHz and FSB upgrades for next year.However, the more I read the more I'm glad I bought mine now. I was beginning to feel like you do. First, there is a remarkable lack of problems with the G5 DP. It is pretty much all new with the bus, controllers, etc and still no problems ala the B&W G3 rev 1 drive controller, wind tunnel G4s, etc. So, I'm pretty lucky in that regard. The G5 just works like a champ without anything going wrong. Also, I watched how G4 prices didn't seem to drop as faster models came out. I kept waiting for a price drop and never really saw enough to buy one. I don't know, maybe this model of DP G5 will be reduced significantly in the future, but maybe not. I'm still glad I didn't wait and I've only had it a week now. I can now see how everything on the B&W G3 was just too slow and outdated. Right now, nothing slows this computer down. I downloaded the demo Unreal Tournament 2003 demo and it blazes with all graphics options maxed out. It had a frame rate of about 1 frame every 4 seconds on the G3 with options set to absolute minimum. All of this is a real joy to see. Unreal 2003 smokes on the G5. I talked to a programmer at MacSoft before buying the G5 and he thought the iMac 800 15" would bog down too much. I should have asked him about the G5s just to see what he had to say but I didn't think about it.I think you are in better shape with older computers right now than I was. I can see how you are more in a position to wait a little longer. The only thing I would think about is that the new line of faster DPs could have those problems like my B&W rev 1 drive controller, etc. All new computer designs are subject to these kinds of problems, which means waiting even longer or taking chances on the first models. The only thing that I wish for is the ability to see how VPC 6 would run on this G5. I can live without it though. (g) Still, I wonder how fast it would run Windoze apps.Right now, there doesn't seem to be any reason to want more power. I know this will change one day. Barry

[Guest ftessler]

Barry,Coming from a B&W G3 as you were, I don't blame you for upgrading now. I bought a B&W in Jan. 1999 when they were released. ALthough it still serves as a family computer, I'd find it a bit pokey for daily work, even with a G4/500 card.To be honest, it's not often that my DP 800 slows me down, which is why I'm planning to wait. The other reason is VPC. There are a couple of Windows apps that I use, and I'm hoping that MS releases a G5-compatible version by the time I get one.Enjoy your G5!-Franklin------------------------------Franklin TesslerDP 800Fly! for Mac Co-moderator

[Guest bwilliams]

Franklin ,I've done a lot more testing and comparing with other things besides Fly II and the G5 DP. Everything is better on the G5, which was surprising to me.I had called MacSoft some time back when I considered buying Unreal Tournament 2003 for my B&W and my sons iMac 800 15". I got a very good programmer on the line and he said that my B&W would barely run it. We talked about frame rates some,etc. I downloaded the demo with 2 levels. The B&W (Sonnet G4 ZIF 500) was getting 1 frame per 3-4 seconds. Major bummer. Also, I dusted off the original Unreal Tournament and discovered that there were hardly any players online (under OS X 10.2.6). Major bummer. Nobody left playing the old version and I can't run the new version with all graphics turned to absolute minimum. Then, I rebooted under OS 9.2.2 and suddenly there were thousands of players again. Something about OS X and the B&W would not let me see the players and servers. Strange.Now, same thing with the G5 and OS X 10.2.7 G5 with remarkably different results. Everything works for the old Unreal Tournament. UT 2003 is blazing fast with maxed out everything including screen resolution. It is absolutely wicked! It is the most amazing game I've ever seen on any computer. Totally fluid graphics. I ordered a copy direct from MacSoft for $19.99 vs MacMall, etc prices of $49.99. Should be here on Friday. Right now, this is THE killer app for G5s, imho. You have to see it to believe it. I forgot to mention that this is all running with a new 17" Apple Display set to 1280x1024. That should have slowed something down but it hasn't so far. The G5 is overkill for game graphics.Another major improvement with the G5 DP is that I can burn CDs under OS X. There is something from Apple about the B&Ws having problems under OS X. I was dead in the water there. Of course, the drive in the G5 is major league faster. I did a 699 mb disk last night in 5 minutes. I'm glad I don't have to burn under OS 8.6 any more. OS 9.2.2 was quirky and just made coasters too many times. I never figured out why after countless hours trying to track down the problem that occurred about twice a year.All of this makes me glad that I bought mine when I did. I'm seeing every day where things are much better. I heard an audio file of the power supply chirp that some people are getting. I think I've gotten it for a few seconds once or twice, but that is all. It never was a big deal. The only software that has not run on the G5 is Lotus 123. Yup, it was out for the Mac about 10 years ago and I bought it used from a buddy. I always liked it for nostalgic reasons and used it often. Believe it or not, the original Hypercard runs fine. (g) I like tinkering with stacks too....nostalgia striking again. I have 3 huge programmer books on Hypercard. The really old stuff all works. I don't remember anything not running under Panther either. It all worked. I mostly stick with Jaguar for now. Some things that had problems with OS 9.2.2 runs perfectly under OS X and Classic. I can't remember all of the major programs right now, but I had a few. Alias Sketch was the biggest worry under OS 9.I know that this off the Fly II topic some, but I hope everyone finds this interesting. I was able to afford the G5 DP because I'm taking courses under the GI Bill and the extra money is there for a while. My wife said I should do it and I was on the phone ordering things a minute or two later. (g) Barry Williams

[Guest ftessler]

Barry,Thanks for the post.The G5 sounds great. Everyone I know who has one is happy with it.-Franklin------------------------------Franklin TesslerDP 800Fly! for Mac Co-moderator