Allen Kriesman - No Z-Buffer Question (pic)

[RandallR 444]

Allen,I have now succeeded in placing a texture layer below the runway and taxiways. I generated this with the TM21_256.POD installed and I believe that this resulted in a 256x256 texture for the polygon. Will this cause any problems for those using the TM21_128.POD, or will it even be a requirement that the TM pod be installed as the texture file will be in the Art folder?

http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e8bbdea7f4ed507.jpg

[Guest Steve Brown]

Hi Randall.I personally use the TM21_128.POD and have had no problems with those who have added hi textures within scenery.Also my latest airports have had these 256X256 textures added textures below the runway and taxiway. I have experimented with z-buffering with and without with no problems, but only when I have added more than one custom texture. Some seem to vanish at certain angles but I think this may have to do with the video card I have.If you ever want me to test this on my humble computer I would be glad to let you know the output.Regards, Steve.http://mysite.freeserve.com/fly2theuk/aragon.JPGUnited Kingdom Sceneryhttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2tms&Go=SearchRepaintshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2Air&Go=SearchOther fileshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...2Misc&Go=Search

[RandallR 444]

Hi Steve,Thanks for the offer - this is simple enough to test, that I can handle it fairly quickly. I'll simply replace the 256-pod with the 128-pod and give it a slew, then remove TM entirely and give it a slew. My guess is it will work regardless of whether TM is even installed, as the texture is custom.I was hoping Allen might be able to provide some advice on whether the texture output size was a direct result of the texture pack used or a result of my texture source material. Also, what he might recommend as the best texture source type, physical parameters of the added texture file for the Art folder and file size. I'm obviously getting good results, but I want to be sure I'll be uploading a good package that won't cause difficulty for end-users.A question for you: With this airport, an older design from Chris Ward that appears to be all default models (not TM), I am averaging a polygon increase of around 37 polys to all views with the underlay added. That would seem to have minimal impact on frame-rates. Do you know what the poly count changes for your underlays are running?

[RandallR 444]

Steve,Yep - that's why I'm asking about this case. When using the Poly menu, the import texture box defaults to 256x256, though you can crop or reduce. Reducing in this case still worked fine, but the effect was just not quite as nice - certainly acceptable, but missing some of the shading I liked.The interesting thing is that there is virtually no difference in poly count or frame rates between the two...Exterior view from rear:--128x128: 20,634 polys--256x256: 20,635 polysNo matter what the angle of view the difference was either nil or no more than 1 poly higher with no change in frame rates. Considering the better appearance, I'm going with the 256-bit underlay. :-)I'm guessing that a flat poly like this just doesn't have that much of an impact, even though it might be as large as the whole airport.I've been testing this with our new TS scenery which will be uploaded soon as a project file. I found the airport in the library (KONZ), modeled by Chris Ward. It does contain some TM models, but appears to have a high amount of Fly! models also. It's poly count is too high, exceeding 35,000 polys in some areas, though it made a nice test subject and includes the taxiways.I can't supply the TS pack yet, but if you're willing to download Chris's scenery and send me your e-mail, I'll be happy to zip you the art and scenery data files. I'd certainly appreciate your opinion.

[RandallR 444]

I haven't had a chance to scan everything in Allens great program - that menu item does bring one to ponder what the future may hold, doesn't it?Ironically, I've been working along with Allen and others in a couple of beta team operations over quite some time. I was very impressed when he came out with the original TerraModels back when we were all pushing Fly!2K. I was impressed with what people were able to do with it in such a short time period, but I've always been buried in too many other projects (DB updates, TerraScenery, my career), that TM has always been one of those things "I'll get into eventually."Well, I'm still tied up in other things, but TM is really going to be a lifesaver here - that airport was absolutely wrecked by the TS urban texture and begged for the "green, green grass of home."I'll be sending off the little files in a few minutes - if you have a chance, try the underlay with Chris's scenery (at least that way you'll get taxiways and stuff). :-)

[Guest Steve Brown]

Hi Randall :-wave Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner, I got back from the shops yesterday to find a bit of a family gate crash on our house. They didnt leave till late.Anyway, I first tried the scenery without your files, so I could get the feel of the place first. Very nice. On my computer tho' the specs are very low for fly so It was a bit jumpy on some shots. Sadly my computer doesnt like the houses, they seem to slow it down to zero if I fly low over them with the helicopter. I sadly had to uninstall the new Heathrow as I couldnt fly over it, near it or around it. But this was no problem to me really.I added your files and could find no noticable change. Its really nice. That grass texture is wonderful. I will give you the frame rates later on by email.Fab job tho, Im keeping this on my computer. I may go there for holiday flights :-) Regards, Steve.http://mysite.freeserve.com/fly2theuk/aragon.JPGUnited Kingdom Sceneryhttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2tms&Go=SearchRepaintshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2Air&Go=SearchOther fileshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...2Misc&Go=Search

[RandallR 444]

Steve,Thanks so much! Looks like this will make a nice little "extra" to add to the next Ohio area global tile render package. As I stated, Chris's scenery is over the top on polygons, but it's nice that someone did the airport. I really appreciate all the object scenery everyone's producing, but we somehow have to get across to people that they need to lighten up on the amount of detail - after all, we're here to fly.Were you using the normal rather than the detailed setting when you flew? Regardless you might want to unpod the ONZ scenery, dump the parking lots and repackage - or, unpod to get his taxiways at least.

[Guest Steve Brown]

Hi Randall :-wave Yes I was using the Detailed setting. You are spot on there. I just tested it in Normal and all is fine. And as you say, just dump the parking lots and houses and yes its going to be as smooth as silk, even on a low speck PC like mine. These grass textures just seem to tidy up the airport area really nice.A big thanks To Allen Kriesman for adding this to his amazing program.Yes,I agree with you about going over the top in the object scenery in the detail area. When I did EGCC Manchester Airport, I think I had to re-do it about three or four times before I uploaded it to Avsim. And even then I get poor frame rates when I look at some views of it with a lot of the buildings left out.Im doing London Gatwick Airport now and Chris is making the Tower for us which is very nice of him. But I have made the terminals in just one texture to keep the framerates right for us all. So far its as smooth as silk. But what Im going to do is put only a few static aircraft in and other extras so if anyone feels they want to add more they can do when they have downloaded the finished product, with the built in editor. You have done a wonderful job for us all Randall many thanks to you, now go and down a few beers :-) Regards, Steve.http://mysite.freeserve.com/fly2theuk/aragon.JPGUnited Kingdom Sceneryhttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2tms&Go=SearchRepaintshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2Air&Go=SearchOther fileshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...2Misc&Go=Search

[RandallR 444]

Thanks for checking this out Steve - I just returned from a retreat with the people I work with, so I'm playing catch-up on posts and messages. Since I have to somehow make a generatable package for people out of this and incorporate at least 1 edited TGA Day "mini tile", it will be a few days before this one is uploaded. You might say it's in high-beta mode right now.Thanks for the little "care package" - I'll take a look at it when I catch up on things. :-)

[Guest Steve Brown]

My pleasure ;-) Regards, Steve.http://mysite.freeserve.com/fly2theuk/aragon.JPGUnited Kingdom Sceneryhttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2tms&Go=SearchRepaintshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2Air&Go=SearchOther fileshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...2Misc&Go=Search

[Guest Steve Brown]

Ah,I got your drift now :-) My computer is in the livingroom next to the TV. Its a hell of a time getting my head into things with the family around me.It has very little impact on my humble computer as you also have found. If you are only using 1 or 2 textures in the airport its going to be a wizzz.Anyway, here is my email address: mailme@brown8506.freeserve.co.uk Just put your name in the title so you dont get trashed :-) I need to get away from doing EGKK Gatwick Airport for a day or so, as the pictures I have of it give me nothing much to go on. But I have done most of the terminal Area at the Airport Im doing and testing it as I add the "eye candy"By any chance, do you know about the "add cityscape" feature in Terramodels 2.2? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm are we going to get a city pack addon?Regards, Steve.http://mysite.freeserve.com/fly2theuk/aragon.JPGUnited Kingdom Sceneryhttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2tms&Go=SearchRepaintshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2Air&Go=SearchOther fileshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...2Misc&Go=Search

[Guest Steve Brown]

Hi Randall>I was hoping Allen might be able to provide some advice on >whether the texture output size was a direct result of the >texture pack used or a result of my texture source material. > Also, what he might recommend as the best texture source >type, physical parameters of the added texture file for the >Art folder and file size. I'm obviously getting good >results, but I want to be sure I'll be uploading a good >package that won't cause difficulty for end-users. I found this below hope it helps you and all the best on your projectRegards, Steve.http://mysite.freeserve.com/fly2theuk/aragon.JPGUnited Kingdom Sceneryhttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2tms&Go=SearchRepaintshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...y2Air&Go=SearchOther fileshttp://ftp.avsim.com/library/search.php?Se...2Misc&Go=Search