Vector map question

[Guest tonyc]

For online flying, ATC provides clear taxiing instructions. While it's important to have an airport taxiway diagram for taxiing, it would be great if the taxiways that appear in the vector map had taxiway signs. I am not referring to out of the aircraft view, but the taxiways that appear when the the vector map is at full zoom. If we could add signs of the alphabet, taxiing would be so much easier when under atc control. Where does the vector map get its taxiways information? tony

[Guest laurentC]

Hi Tony,The nodes, edges and polygons are in the taxiways pod : each airport gets some files for all this information ... take a look at this :ai_traffic_taxipark_file_helper_v10.zip in the AVSIM libraryunfortunally the TRI taxiways files are half in TXT and half in binary the you need tools (like the one above) to read them.But I can tell you there's no "sign" coded inside ... nor parking areas which would have been really useful with traffic programs !Cheers,laurentC

[Guest tonyc]

Thanks, Laurent. I guess it's a question that goes beyond my knowledge or technical abilities. We need someone who understands how taxiways can have taxi letters showing in the vector map. A program like taxiway or Terrascene would need to be modified in order to include that capability.tony

[Guest laurentC]

Hi Tony,Actually is not so hard to do ... by now I could easily open a new window and display the runways and taxiways ... what we do need is another database that lists all the signs positions and values.I think that this database doesn't exist yet and I never encounter one elsewhere ... thus the only solution left is to fill in the data by hand !Does it really worth it ?Cheers,laurentC

[Guest tonyc]

It's worth it when one flies on-line. The ATC ground controller gives taxi directions according to taxi signs, i.e., alpha, beta, tango, etc.Taxiing out of the aircraft window is not practical, again because of lack of visual ground perspective and signs. The vector map, however, shows all the taxiways. It's a real challenge looking at the airport diagram and the vector map at the same time--while the ground controller warns that you've entered the wrong taxiway!If you could explain it better, I might be interested in doing it.tony

[Guest Chris Wallace]

Tony,There is currently no data to say which taxiway is A, B, C, etc. so there's no way to automatically place the airport signage. There are a couple of potential ways to add the data...probably the best way would be to augment the existing taxiway file formats to include information about sign placement. The data would still have to be painstakingly entered for every airport though, just as taxiways have to be painstakingly constructed today. However, this is likely impossible since Fly! II would not be able to read the additional information, and would probably think the taxiway file was corrupt.Another method, which I think is what Laurent was getting at, would be to create a new database (DBT/DBD/DBI files) with signage information, and a custom DLL to display a new vector map including the signs. Again, it would be a manual effort to compile the data on airport signage for individual airports, unless there is a database out there somewhere that has this in it.Chris WallaceOttawa, Canada

[Guest tonyc]

I understand ,Chris. You are correct about the need to add the taxiways signage manually. For FLY's purposes, taxiways signage would apply to very large airports, and more specifically, to those airports from which one flys from and to when online. Ideally, the sign program would allow one to pick the coordinates with the mouse ( like the AI_TP utility) and then enter a letter.Tony

[Guest laurentC]

Right Tonyc, and the rendering could be made in a sort of vector map mixing up existing taxiways data for edges and nodes plus the new positioning sign data.But even if it is easy to plan and make, it's anyway a long work to do.As I'm involved in some airplanes developments by now (I presume people quite prefers planes than add-on ...) I would propose a time saving solution ...Rather than use the taxiways files, why don't we use a sort of vector program to make a database with simple named nodes and edges that roughly represent an airport scheme (only interesting taxiways) ? Obviously the vectores names would be the taxiways signs.I think we can easily find some simple vectors programs around (maybe even in the AVSIM library)... then, with this simple named vectors I can make a simple dll that renders the display on the screen ... Does it make sense for all of us ?Cheers,laurentC

[Guest tonyc]

Laurent, forgive me for not understanding all the technical details of your explanation. This is strictly for discussion and for pushing our creative powers. When the vector map is open and the taxiways are in full zoom, can the mouse be used to add "taxi dots"? Essentially, the pilot would use the real world taxi diagram to locate the correct taxi letters; with the vector map open and with the mouse, the pilot then points to the taxiway coordinates, leaving a series of yellow dots. These are temporary taxiing dots, and no dots connecting line would be needed, that would disappear as soon as the vector map is closed. So, essentially, the new program would add temporary dot marking capability to the vector map with a mouse click. tony

[Guest laurentC]

Hi Tony,The original vector map can't be hooked and modified ... or I don't know how we can do that ... Actually, if you want more data displayed in a vector map, you have to code it again ... !That's why I was thinking of a sort of CAD program which would be used to prepare vectors (or lines) plus text that would be rendered in a sort of new siplified taxiways window.Take care,laurentC

[Guest tonyc]

Laurent, I understand. Is there anything that can be done with the flight planner window? the flight planner allows waypoints and connects waypoints. If taxiways points were added, than the virtual map would show a line according to the taxiway points. I don't know how this would interface with a flight plan, since a flight plan comes before ATC provides taxiing instructions. I don't think it's enough of a priority to do a lot of work. I simply get lost from time to time taxiing because I can't see the taxi signs. tony

[Guest tonyc]

Laurent, I took Terramodels and added a taxi letter. It reads better than a taxi sign. Too bad it does not show in the vector map.....tony

[Guest Eagle]

I used to add taxiway signs to the scenery that I did, but for some reason I am unable to do this any longer. The Terramodels program gives me a bunch of unrecognizable letters.

[Guest laurentC]

Hummm ...I have a couple of ideas but I would like to test them before any further ...Let say we have two goals :1) create a very low time consuming (for me !) add-on and an easy to add database (for you !)2) have a nifty tool to find your way in airports(BTW if we were in an open OpenGlide sim it would be quite easy to add letters and "poles" in the pilot sight)Then, give me some few days to come up with something to test ...(hey, no whistles and bells though, just functional !)Cheers,laurentC

[Guest tonyc]

:-)tony