UK runways

[Hans_Petter 1]

I think this has been mentioned before but here I go, the UK region has a lot of runways that consist of the aerial textures only. When being viewed from high above this is fine but we really need some Looking Glass or Driscoll concrete to spot the runway as we approach it. Even VASI lights and sequence flashers (running rabbits) would be appropriate. The ones that haven't been "constructed" yet are one thing but even London City has a fairly "ephemeral" runway. Is anybody working on laying proper slabs of concrete and adding the lights? I might play with FLED and get something done but it would be a waste of time if other simmers are preparing proper packages.Hans Petter

[Guest glidernut]

Hans,I like that.Thay would hav to be very low in poligons, bicous youd need a lotof them, or you woud hardly ever see them, bicous thay are so smallIv discuvered that mooving objects on the ground must onlybe used where the terrain hight will never be changed agen.This is bicous only statik models can be snaped to a new terrain hight.Mooving objects can not be snaped to a new terrain hight.How about "flying birds"? But thy would hav to be black, or we would never see them.Fortunatly we not got birds or rabits yet.Im only doing a list of models to avoid doing stuf in the dreded Fled.What,s rong with the runways we alredy hav?Thay look OK to me.Think of the frame rate.Beter models = biger frame rate hit.glidernut.:-wave

[Guest Rich Wren]

We likes that idea. We likes that a lot.That'd give you something else to watch for in the circuit. Nothing like a birdstrike to really ruin your day. :-)Rich.

[Hans_Petter 1]

Hey, I wasn't referring to furry little animals :-)Here's a few images to show what I mean. The first one is from Southend at nightfall. I chose dusk to check whether any lights would appear but it looks about the same when I choose full daylight. The tarmac looks blurry and undefined, probably because it's an image captured from high above the ground. I took off and spotted the airfield from high above a few times but I couldn't make out where it was when I got close to it.London City and the large airports have marker lights but the entire UK region could do with some light and tarmac enhancements. The new Parliament building glows in the dark now and that looks promising.The other images are from the SanFran region, showing well-defined runways that are easy to spot. Even though I've focused on lights in the dark the issue is as much one of runway definition, even for daytime flights. It lookes great from above and blurry when you get close and that's why more visual cues are needed to define the runways as we approach them. Hans Petterhttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/10489.jpghttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/10490.jpghttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/10491.jpghttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/10492.jpg

[Guest andy9164]

Hans,The airport you pointed out "Southend" I dont think anybody has worked on yet. Certainly, Gatwick, heathrow Southampton and all those that are available in the library as Packages have "proper" runways. Rob Driscoll has various textures for runways and taxiways which have been used, but as I am finding out, it's not as easy as it looks, but I am slowly getting there with the airport at Lydd which i am developing.Try the developed airports, I am sure you will find them better.Andy

[Hans_Petter 1]

Yes you're right--the developed airports look fine, even at night. The exception is the London City runway but maybe this one is supposed to be a dirt strip? Check the night-time final to Stansted below. What has confused me is that some of the undeveloped airports have an icon on the map. We may spot several odd airfields when cruising over the area but these haven't been assigned a name and an icon.Stansted by night--no problem finding the runway here :-)http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/10569.jpgbest regards,Hans Petter

[Guest Quaxo]

Hans, I can answer part of the question here - regarding the undeveloped airports with the icon.At the beginning of UK development, there was only one airport - that was London City. When I started adding terrain, starting from the south coast, I wanted to be able to take off from some airports there, to check the scenery, and also to have some fun! :-) But I'm no airport developer, I don't know how to use FLED well, so all I could do was to add an icon, and a "un-textured" runway. These un-developed airports are all contained in my "UKS" package.Later, after the initial releases of the scenery, many airports have been re-designed by our talented developers, in effects replacing my old un-developed airports. And, as time goes on, I hope that eventually all of my airports will be replaced by "proper" airports... For example, I'd like to see Goodwood and Lee-on-the-Solent, to name a few! :-)As for the airports without an icon, well, I didn't have the time to add an icon to EVERY airport I found - for the smaller, or less intresting (to me) ones, I just added a red dot on my map at home, so I knew that there was an airport...Cheers,Cristian

[Guest R_Driscoll]

Cristian made a basic package for London Airport, and I've never really thought about working on it. Of course it has no textured runway, but you or someone else could put something together for it. I am not sure what is going to happen with Pt Angeles, but if that's not urgent I am free to work on London Airport if you don't want to. Cristian, do you mind (since at present its totally your work!) if Hans or I add to your London Airport scenery?Each airport takes time - as you know it takes a few weeks to do each one - I'm getting slower in my old age too (as my kids tell me) and if I do it, I would rather not just do the runway, but add a few basic buildings etc as well.Jon, I dashed off the new runway textures to you - have you had a chance to look at them yet? You're taking a dashed long time about it. I don't want to hurry you - its not healthy to dash everywhere, but I would value your comments before putting my final plans into concrete (now he'll shoot me for sure - ARRGGGGGHHHHHH).Hans, if you want to build it yourself then that would be excellent. Roll up your sleeves, start up FLED, and enjoy! Since you identified the problem, I think you have the right to claim this job!RobD.

[Hans_Petter 1]

Rob, I might give it a shot but this would be my first FLED endeavor except for some private dabbling into groves of trees :-)What I (we) would need to know is whether London City has a proper concrete runway or a dirt strip. The light brown from the aerial photos may indicate that it's not a "hard" runway surface. Apart from this, are the buildings appropriate? Since we're all pressed for time I wouldn't mind a "joint venture" for this little project.Since we're talking, the night lighting of the Parliament and adjacent buildings looks great! It would be nice to really "light up" the entire downtown... oops, city centre of London and make it all glow at night.Hans Petter

[Guest R_Driscoll]

Working together would be excellent, Hans! That would be for me the best solution. I will start work on a runway as soon as possible, and then send it to you - could you use FLED to install things? If this is difficult, let me know.Are there other buildings we need, and should we ask for help from the AI expert (Roland) to link up some AI flights?I can do the taxiways, edges etc.Contact me directly onR.Driscoll@unsw.edu.auRobD.

[Guest jonpoint]

Rob,"Jon, I dashed off the new runway textures to you - have you had a chance to look at them yet? You're taking a dashed long time about it. I don't want to hurry you - its not healthy to dash everywhere, but I would value your comments before putting my final plans into concrete (now he'll shoot me for sure - ARRGGGGGHHHHHH)."Well, I've been dashed busy, dashing around here and there. I almost had her ready then my hopes were dashed when she refused to turn the (dashed) taxi lights on. As navigating taxiways in the dark (no matter that you have 5 :-eek spotlights) is dashed awkward, I'd like to get the dashed problem sorted first. I know it's only a beta but...Seriously, the textures are a great improvement. I noticed rung20.gif has two GeeBee wheel marks from someone's (??) taxiway approach :-lolThey look great. My only suggestion is twofold (that's two suggestions, NONG!!?!). To get the runway edges to blend better with the scenery, can you 'fade' the edges (green bits) to black? By 'fade' I actually mean increasing transparency as you near the edge (a few pure black pixels near the runway becoming many near the edge). I did this with the dirt taxiways for better effect (as you know ;) ).The other thing is some 'generic' grass textures for field areas. Something that matches the runway and 'fades' out near one edge (or two for corners). Then we can have a nice surface near the runways/taxiways, instead of an abrupt change from 0.5m/pixel to 4m/pixel. This 'intermediate' grass could be done at say 1-2m/pixel and would provide a good transition as viewed from the aircraft. This is one of my 'issues' with FU3. You can create a really busy, warm atmoshere around airports with lots of interesting things. Once away from the terminal though, looking at the ground can be boring - look at the ground here:http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/10683.jpgYour new runways will help a lot but will expose that transition even more. It would also be useful for covering ground 'lights' that appear in strange places ;)BTW, if we have the grass 'transition', the runway edges don't have to 'fade'.Just a thought :-beerchugJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

[Guest Quaxo]

Robert,I did not do London City. It's not in my UKS package (MY airports are compltely empty, without a single building! :-) ) Actually, it was included in the very first London package (the one which was downloadable in the library, do you remember?), and I just included it in the UK distribution. So, I think it was Andr

[Guest R_Driscoll]

Thanks Jon for not shooting me (is that a quote from Speed? Close).But especially I am glad you like the new runway textures. I agree with your suggestion about Fade to Black - will definitely do. Actual (effective) runway width is exactly 80% of MIP width with the edging (important for setting runway width correctly). I will go ahead with converting old runways and uprooting jtrees, aiming to Dash off an update release of the old packages in, oh, about 14 years (sorry) days. I like the feel of the new runways - Ansgar was correct about that, but my old system takes a framerate hit and the MIPS blur too much at distance, so I hope to solve these before final release.If no-one objects soon, then Peter and I will start building London airport. Last night I made a rough model of the Thames barrier, and I plan to start work on the runway over the next few days.I'm glad you like the new streetlighting effect for London. I don't know how to use the "proper" lighting effect as done by LGS for the original areas - this is something that agtim's tools could tackle, but I can't, so I have used objects with lighting. The only secret in them is that they simulate street lighting by being poles spaced apart with night-textured lights on top - you can only just see the poles during the day, but the lights are clear at night - but I do many lights in each object. I will keep adding these in the update releases of UKS - I place them as carefully as Chris places trees - to follow streets. The object is called light4 (i.e. light40.bin), and it is difficult to place since it is almost invisible by day! But with care I can place them more accurately than LGS's generic lighting. Adding more buildings will add to the effect to give a busy night city feel. Good for small towns too.Also I'm glad that you like the red train GliderNut. But what's wrong with the EuroStar? They're similar (but different) models! Have you got a prejudice against yellow? If so, you're not going to like my new hangar - the rust stains have given it a sort of vague mottley yellow tinge. But I like the red train too (the Gatwick Express! - although at present it doesn't go to Gatwick, doesn't go to Victoria Station and goes slow). Cheers,RobD.

[agtim 0]

Hi all,Yes I did London City as default airport of UK-London and UK-South also. It's just a quick and dirty build to have an airport for the first start of the region. It has to be reworked, Lodon City has a standard runway, but I left it as from the picture resolution. :-wave agtim

[Guest R_Driscoll]

Then Agtim, do you mind if Hans and I start developing it further? Of course we will want to include you in the author list! (Hans suggested this). I have some nice pictures of the airport, and Andy has sent me superb information on the runway, approaches, frequencies etc. Roland has already done some AI for the airport, but we will ask him to check and touch it up if necessary. RobD.