For those who have fooled with MS Flight Sim

[Guest Dann]

How does the flight model in MS Flight Sim 2002 compare with Flight Unlimited III?Dan

[Christopher Low 5,332]

It doesn't.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

[Naji 5]

Hi, Dann. The flight models of FS2002 stock planes are not that impressive, but some freeware and payware add-on aircraft quite shine. Two in particular that I recommend if you're willing to pay are Dreamfleet's Archer and Cessna Cardinal. I fly them a lot and have enjoyed them tremendously. Some of the stock planes have had their flight models improved significantly though. If you need more info, let me know.

[JimmiG 244]

Stock models are about equal to FU3. They are better in some areas (they are closer to the real specs), but the planes in FU3 'feel' smoother to fly.There are some excellent freeware airfiles for the default planes, that significantly improves things.The best are the RealAir files for the C172 and C182. Their flight model for the 172 was actually designed for a flightschool.Hopefully flight models will be better in FS2004. It sure looks like they have improved the weather and sky.

[Hans_Petter 1]

This could easily become a long article :-)FS models are easier to tweak since there are real-life specifications and parameters to enter. With FU it seems to be "try a little of this and a little of that and check how it comes out". However, the FS flight model has other limits since it doesn't calculate mass and inertia of the various elements. I think X-plane is more like FU in this respect.There's another aspect that influences the flight experience, namely the modeling of the atmosphere / weather. If you select no weather in FS you get just that--everything's dead calm. In FU there are always "little bumps in the air" and this makes the flight experience more realistic.If you crank up the FS weather (or, download real weather) you'll get realistic winds. But then, strange things may happen with wind shear and turbulence. While shear is a real thing FS seems to create too much of it. Put differently, any turbulent weather tends to manifest itself as shear rather than turbulence. Presumably this happens since the weather engine jumps from one wind situation to the other, without "padding" the output with turbulence wherever the situation changes. I've tried "real weather" on a moderately turbulent day and even a jet was being shook all over the place--I was pretty much being centrifuged on short final. Then I looked at the real aircraft landing and even the smaller ones were doing fine. The smaller branches of the trees were moving a bit but the Cessnas and the Pipers made perfect landings. Steady wind in FS works fine but any turbulence tends to take on hurricane qualities.Another issue is the ground handling. Try a crosswind landing in FU3 (you ought to have rudder pedals) and check what happens if you don't come aligned as you touch down. The plane will jolt and you will enjoy the sound of screeching rubber. In FS it doesn't matter if you touch down with a sideslip since the wheels are not sensitive to skidding sideways. In effect, it's like having castor wheels or sliding on ice.All in all, if you really want to make sure that your Piper Saratoga has the correct specs a good FS flight model is the best start, apart from the fact that we haven't got one for FU. I say "start" since you might want to tweak it further. And, you can. A confusing thing is that several of the acclaimed payware aircraft work great for a host of wrong reasons. If you "pop under the hood" of the flight dynamics you'll find that a lot of the specs are deliberately wrong. The Cessnas mentioned above are defined as turbocharged even though they're not supposed to be turbocharged. The rationale is that the FS piston aircraft are overly sensitive to mixture in that the engine(s) stop if you fail to lean above 4,000 ft. A real Cessna will make it past 4,000 ft on full rich, albeit with loss of performance / bad fuel economy. The FS stock Cessna will not. (FU aircraft don't seem to respond to mixture setting at all). Another acclaimed aircraft is sort of capable of spinning, also accomplished by deliberately entering some wrong numbers. The problem is, a spin means that one wing stalls while the opposite one is still flying and FS doesn't model the wings independently. So, there are compromises being made. However, if you want to enter the manufacturer's specs this is easier done in FS.FU aircraft capture the flight experience really well. You probably can't tell whether you're flying a Duke or a Baron, or even a Piper Archer or a Cessna 172 since there's no way to check the exact specs. However, the general categories of aircraft present themselves well. By the same token, I wouldn't trust fuel flow at various rpm versus throttle settings. But then, the way the aircraft interacts with the air and the ground is very convincingly modeled. So, if you're not overly concerned about getting the exact parameters for the exact make or model FU is a great sim for capturing the feeling of flight, including good and bad landings :-) best regards,Hans Petter

[Guest glidernut]

Naji, Hans, or anyone,What is this "payware" add-on aircraft ?Is this "payware" add-on aircraft" only for FS sims ? and presoomablyavaleabal in the shops ?Or is it a groop of peopl that "for the right prise" would bild na aircraft for any sim ?Is there a web sight or sumthing ?How much would it cost for a glider for FU3 ?And if I payed for a glider of my choosing, could I make it freeware for everyone ?glidernut.:-wave

[Hans_Petter 1]

A website or something...how about this one for a start? Please check out the Avsim Store :-)Payware tends to be focused on the MS Flight Simulator since it has a wide user base. Usually the skilled developers have been offering freeware for some time and then decide that they can turn their hobby into a home business. Maybe Ansgar's next FU3 aircraft will be downloadable from www.FU3workshop.de, to the tunes of Euro 20? :-)And no, if you buy a payware aircraft it would not be appreciated if you upload it as freeware...Hans Petter

[Christopher Low 5,332]

John,Nobody is making payware aircraft for FU3, since this would not be profitable. However, I believe that some talented gentlemen are doing this kind of thing for FREE. How about that for "value for money" ? :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.

[Guest Dann]

Wow! Excellent responses, ALL!Okay, whew...I think I'll just stick with Flight Unlimited 3 as it is satisfying all needs so far. (Okay, I really really really wish we had a Cessna 182 model to go with the excellent cockpit and flight dynamics! I'd pay for that one, seriously!)As for leaning mixture: done correctly, you pick up about 3-5 kias, but other than that, the engines don't care.Thanks again for the answers...I'm just sort of getting a bug to try out some other software...sounds like I may just end up going back to FU3 anyway!Dan

[Guest Allan_D]

Dan,I,ve had the opportunity to hands on fly quite a few different type Planes, ( with a pilot on board ) One of them was a 1952 DC2 Beaver on floats, If you'd like the closest example to that, try Fred Bantings Beaver7 pack.It's a FS2K Plane so you need that plus the upgrade to FS2K2.All freeware in this library.If you like 172's there's good ones for either game, I've had hands on yoke in these many times. Try Tom Wunders Skyhawk, It's very close to the feeling and looks of the real thing. There's also a few of them for FS that are very close to the feeling of real.I've never flew or rode in a Kingair, But I have Pilot friends that tell me Daniels, Kingair is about as close as it could get in a flight game, And that's for FU3.One of my friends owns a 66 Gruman Yankee so I've flew that several times, It flies like a go cart drives :-lol Very quick on the control input. Have to use very soft movement if you don't wish to be upside down. The freeware for FS Gruman Yankee is same way. In fact that's always the Plane he flies when he's over playing.You will find very good and very bad Planes for both games. Have Fun :-newburnAllan and Puppyhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

[Guest R_Driscoll]

As I understand it there was a design philosophy difference between FS and FU, to do with how they model flight. I know that FS used to use look-up tables, whereas FU and Xplane tried to model the aerodynamics of the main parts - lift, drag, air deflection. Maybe FS now models flow as well?But why couldn't FU3 have had another week to include barometric pressure, passenger/cargo loading, and connect up the loose ends in FLED?I thought mixture did work! I religiously trim to peak T star on the Renegade. But I wouldn't know if it gave me more performance or not - I just imagine I'm saving some fuel!RobD.

[Guest jonpoint]

I'll stay out of this! I'm currently finishing one FU3 aircraft and about to start another one (or two)...Yes, FU3 can be weird sometimes but it's a joy to fly. As someone mentioned above, when you run into a patch of cooler air, you can 'feel' the plane slow down a bit and rise on the denser air. I don't think I've ever not 'felt' some air movement or turbulence in FU3.But I'm biased. I don't have time for another sim ;):-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

[Guest jonpoint]

Geez, John!You're not offering to pay me for these gliders, are you? I DO intend to give you what you want (or, as close as I can) but I never expected anything from it - maybe a 'thankyou' or so but that's all. The best thing I could hope for is for lots of people to download it and come back to say they appreciate it. If you did pay me I'd probably donate it to Avsim!I did the GeeBee 'for' GeeBee Jim because:- He identified an aircraft we didn't have,- He agreed to help with data, photos etc- He provided feedback, along with everyone else, and- He said 'Thanks' at the end.The Dash-8 is my own choice, mainly because I wasn't that confident that I could do such a mammoth task. Thanks to the Dash-8 'Team' and the gentle encouragement from the 'regulars' at Avsim, I have overcome all hurdles and am racing to the finish line (with props spinning and tyres smoking!).The only difference here is that I don't know if I am doing the aircraft you want! The ASW model is uneditable (for me) and I cannot find even 10% of the info I already have from Blanik and yourself so I'd like to go with the L13 (I also have more chance of flying one in real life) BUT, if you have a better idea, please tell me before I go too far. Maybe a different Blanik? They are great with information ;)To All,Maybe we need a 'wishlist' for FU3, pinned at the top of the forum? People can post their requests and others can reply to say they've picked it up etc. Since we are all rather interactive (compared to MSFS users), it may be the best way to go. Any ideas?:-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

[Guest twsimfan]

Jon,"Maybe we need a 'wishlist' for FU3, pinned at the top of the forum?"We will give it a try!

[Guest twsimfan]

Allan,"Try Tom Wunders Skyhawk, It's very close to the feeling and looks of the real thing."Thanks for the commercial... long time since one of mine has been mentioned... so many have come since mine. ;-)