Todays Problem - Taxigraphs

[Guest andy9164]

Its now 1.15 a.m and I'm a bit frustrated to say the least with Taxigraphs.Can someone please explain to me how you work the following.Here's the situation.I have 2 runways that cross. 22/04 and 32/14 with a taxiway running paralell the full length of 22/04 which needs to cross 32/14. My main runway is 22/04 and I want to come out of my parking spot and take off from runway 04.1) I can only define one runway. Whenever I define two, I get told that my edges cross.2) With only one runway I always get directed to R22.(is this something to do with the traffic pattern)3) I looked at Heathrow, it has crossing runways. The "secondary" runway is defined but only from start to where it crosses the main runway.My aim is to have both runways and be told to "hold short runway 32(or 14).Any assistance will be appreciated.Going to bed now and hopefully will have some suggestions for tomorrow.Andy

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Andy,I will try to answer your questions in sequence.1. I am not at home at the moment, so I cannot quite remember how I solved the "crossing runways" problem. I think it was Ralph Mace who helped me with this during my early days of airport modifications. However, I do know that I completely rebuilt Olympia's runways during this time, and the two runways cross each other. I will have a look when I get home.2. You will be directed to the runway that suits the wind direction, which is presumably runway 22 by default. However, if you untick the ILS box for runways 14,22 and 32....and tick the ILS box for runway 04 (you don't even need to enter an ILS frequency), then you will force FU3 to use runway 04.3. You will not be told to "hold short" at a runway unless it is also active. For example, San Francisco International has two parallel runways active, and two other runways inactive. You will NEVER be told to hold short at the two inactive runways.I hope this helps.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

[Guest andy9164]

Chris,With your post, and what I saw at Heathrow last night, I think the problem may be solved. As per my post, if I make the runway I want to cross active but only between the runway start and the point of crossover, then my runways (edges) as seen by Fled will not cross and therefore my taxigraph should work. This will also mean that I also have a "hold" short point as I will be in theory crossing an active runway and by using the ILS tip provided should be able to go to runway O4.Will try it out tonight and let you know. Thanks for adding pieces to the jigsaw. Andy(P.S. I'm enjoying it really)

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Andy,Your cross runway would only be active if it was being used by AI planes. Simply being able to create an AI runway (two green runway end icons with a blue taxigraph connection) does not make it active. However, this does add the runway to your list of options on the map screen. In other words, you should be able to click on "take off from runway x" or "final to runway x".You should still be able to get this with a full length cross runway though. Like I said, I will have a look at my Olympia tonight. You might also want to look at San Francisco International, which is probably the best example of an airport with cross runways in FU3.I assume that you are familiar with adding "special" nodes where taxiways join (or cross) runways ? It is also recommended that you remove the blue taxigraph that connects both of the green runway end icons, but ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE TAXIGRAPH WORK. This is because the AI planes "see" this line as a potential taxiway, and this is something that needs to be avoided. After all, using parts of the active runway as a taxiway is not a good idea (remember what happened in Tenerife ? ).Chris Low,ENGLAND.

[Guest andy9164]

My theory from previous posts did not resolve much to my dissapointment. So my problem from your post above is1) I do not have any AI planes2) I get the edges crossing message whenever my taxiway crosses the runway3) By special nodes do you mean empty nodes.I will revisit again later tonight and post any findingsThanks for your helpandy

[Guest CaptRolo]

Andy , Start over with runways and a line connecting down the runway to each end ,then you have to insert special taxi nodes on the line that represent each crossing , and when you make a node you have to move it or each time you click , the other one will be on top of the one that is allready there. now if you have two crossings ,you need two nodes , one crossing one node and so forth . these nodes will connect to the taxiway you are building .(now build taxiways) They are like traffic cops and you need them . when you have connected successfully you can move node and taxi line will move with it as if connected with a rubber band.If you have to many nodes delete ones you don't need ,finally that line in middle of runway has to be deleted. Then assuming you have runways assigned right numbers ATC will be able to direct traffic to active runway.Hold short will only apply if both runways are used for different aircraft ,IE small ,large Ralph Mace ;AKA;CaptRolo

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Andy,By your second note, it seems that you were not aware that a special node (a form of empty node) is required wherever a taxiway crosses a runway. To create one of these, you need to click on the blue box in the centre of your runway taxigraph. A purple box (like an empty node) will appear on your runway. You can now drag this along the runway to a taxiway crossing point. Create as many special nodes as you need (depending on how many taxiway crossing points you have).DO NOT DELETE THE LINE THAT CONNECTS THE TWO RUNWAY ENDS UNTIL YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT YOU DO NOT NEED ANY MORE SPECIAL NODES FOR THAT RUNWAY.Chris Low.

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Ralph,I cannot remember how I sorted out the "runway crossing another runway" problem. I seem to remember that FLED wouldn't allow me to use one special node at the crossing point without indicating an error. How is this done ? It has been not far short of two years since I had to think about a problem of this type, and I have clearly forgotten !In fact, I am not even sure if this causes a problem. I might simply be remembering a taxigraph error that was caused by something else. If I create a runway taxigraph between two green runway end icons, and then do the same to a runway crossing this, will I get an error ? If this is the case, then this must have been solved (or at least worked around).Chris Low.

[Guest andy9164]

Looks like I need to go back to the drawing board. Thanks to all for the info above, sometime over the weekend I will try and implement it all.Andy

[Guest andy9164]

And Finally...... I managed to get my taxiways and runways to cross over each other without getting Taxigraph errors. I am putting the "hold short" issue on hold as I want to at least get the basic airport finished and uploaded, and this is a minor problem.Andy

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Andy,Like Ralph said, if you make sure that one runway only operates airliners, then the other runway can be used for smaller planes. This is very easy to do, and is a good way of using multiple runways.In fact, even I have not considered this to any great extent. I might just take another look at San Francisco International after thinking about this. I would like to get the business jets, other small planes, and the military aircraft from the north hangar to use one (or both) of the cross runways.Come to think of it, that sounds like a damn fine idea !Chris Low,ENGLAND.

[Guest andy9164]

Chris,Needed to take a few days away from Fled but back in the swing now.I cant find how to do the above apart from possibly creating some parking spots for bigger planes and allocating these to the other runway. Here I hit another problem. When I try and double click on a new parking spot I get an error "Unable to modify in end user mode".Any ideas.ThanksAndy

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Andy,You will not be able to operate airliners from two different runways unless they are parallel. However, you can get military aircraft (like the C5 Galaxy and Hercules), business jets and other small planes to use a cross runway.1. Select which runway you want the airliners to operate from.2. Click on the green runway end icons for that runway, and select OBJECT PROPERTIES from the OBJECTS menu.3. Exclude everything except TRANSPORT PLANES.4. Now click on the green runway end icons of the runway that you want the other planes to operate from, and select OBJECT PROPERTIES from the OBJECTS menu.5. Exclude TRANSPORT PLANES only.6. Save your airport.The AI airliners should now be using the main runway, and all other planes (including yours, unless you are classed as a HEAVY) will use the cross runway.If you have another runway (and you do not want this to be used), then follow the above instructions and exclude EVERYTHING.Chris Low,ENGLAND.