What makes FU3 so special ?

[LAdamson 240]

>Larry,>>Whilst I admire the achievements of many of these aircraft>designers, I find it hard to believe that flight models that>are not based on the physics of airflow over the wings can be>as good as those that are. What types of plane are you>referring to here ?>Chris,Even the X-Plane boys (and girls?) admit that MSFS can duplicate known flying qualities by the numbers better than X-Plane can. That's the advantage of look up tables. You take a flying airplane & program the known values into the sim.X-Plane & it's flight modeling system works well for approximations, but requires tweaking to hit the numbers, and even thats tough or impossible at times. For instance, since this is based on actual fact.....Say you own an aircraft & wish to use the sim for IFR practice, which includes specific speed reductions, and descent rate when gear, flaps, or both are deployed at a specific point in time, such as an outer or middle marker.You build the model within X-Planes "plane maker", but the numbers just don't hit anything close to your real airplane. Then you fudge with hidden wings, drag factors, and so on.............but never hit the correct airspeeds,etc.And this is where the look up tables have an advantage. You can program in the "exact" airspeeds, vertical descent, etc. because you know what the real numbers are. And MSFS will duplicate it.And now...................... as to specific 3rd party aircraft, I'll discuss three that I've flown in real life. The Piper Archer II by Dreamfleet, the Marchetti SF260 by RealAir Simulations, and the Van's RV7 by Flight Factory Simulations (I've actually flown the RV6's which are close enough).All three of these, and many more, duplicate the real airplane in many ways. From hitting the numbers, to a sense of mass, proper dampening, power to weight ratios, so on & so on. Considering it's just a P/C simulation on a monitor, the effect of flying these products seem quite real..........................if you know what the real one feels like, which many here, don't BTW....L.Adamson

[LAdamson 240]

>No, I'd better not respond. Tom wouldn't appreciate it ;-)>>Chris Low.Go ahead................ I see you're exactly 100 postings behind me.. Then you'll only be 99! :)L.Adamson

[Hans_Petter 1]

LAdamson, I agree that the exact numbers are something I miss in FU3. In FS sims anything from fuel flow to wing area can be entered as real life parameters. FU and X-plane use flow dynamics equations rather than numbers -- the shape of the (flight dynamics) model rides the relative wind and produces the effect. These are two totally different approaches and both have their advantages and disadvantages. While it's much easier to nail the exact specs in FS it's easier to simulate surface versus air interactions with a flow dynamics model. Do you see a way to combine these two approaches to simulated flight modeling?Hans Petter

[Guest R_Driscoll]

I loaded FU2 from a demo disk, flew it once, couldn't control it because my plane didn't start in the proper place, lined up on the runway (I knew this was the proper place because FS95 taught me so). Not only that, but the engines weren't switched on! Everything that I could see out the plane windows was grey blurry textures, and one little building in the far distance (Half-Moon Bay). After a few minutes I worked out how to start the motors, gunned the throttle and crashed. I threw the disk back in the cupboard in disgust and went back to playing Ultima VIII.About a year later I found the demo disk and tried again. I got it in the air and looked out the window ....OH NOOOOOOO!!! A WHOLE YEAR WASTED !!! arrggghhhhhhh!!! SCREAM!!!! PANIC !!!!!!!!! Crunch (sound of FS98 hitting the wastepaper basket).I flew that demo so many times, and then bought FU3/FU2 soon after.I think I got my money's worth.(to the tune of "Land of Hope and Glory", and in a deep voice): Never, in the history of flight simulation, has so much been achieved by so few.RobD.

[Guest effyouthree]

* I have it. This is important, as I've returned every other sim...* I enjoy 'just' flying it and looking around.* I eventually discovered the joys of flying at dawn/dusk. It's still my favourite time!* I can spend even more time just tinkering with it. * It feels 'alive'compared to many wooden sims. You can feel every 'lump' of air, as you fly through it. In many cases, especially bad weather, you just cannot fly it, except in something huge (and even then, you'd be careful...). This seems to be missing from many sims. Those of you lucky enough to do some real flying will know what I mean here - just because you want to fly today doesn't mean that conditions are suitable. At least we can reset the weather :-lol* Support is free, so are all the upgrades ;) You don't have to decide which part to spruce-up to save money. * The people. Really. Regards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

[Guest Pieter]

Larry, I think you missed my point ;-) I said not in comparison!I was only thinking totally about the "feel" of the thing. FU3 models, regardless of being on the numbers are not, has that feel of an aircraft in the air. No the "bubble" effect of X-Plane or the "fly by wire stick to the rails feel" one gets in general with FS. I had the same experience with the Arrow, nothing like the one at our flight school..., but it still adhered to the excellent weather phenomena of FU. And we must remember that even now neither X-Plane nor FS has such ATC, not even thinking at the time of release of FU3!>And the LakeI just liked it (and the FU2 Beaver) for the tranquility of landing in a remote area on the water, listening to the water gurgling over the floats and the bird sounds (sound files supplied by an enthusiastic user). At the FU release date FS didn't even had a glimpse of landable water in sight without downloading megs of BGL's and aircraft with adapted "landing gear for water". I have X-Plane and FS aircraft that when left alone in a bank they just keep on turning until I come back from my tea break.BUT Scenery, aircraft weather and ATC make (made) FU greatPieterPS Did I mention that FU shows its age ;-)

[Christopher Low 5,353]

Pieter,Just how good is the ATC system in FS2004 ? Despite what Larry says, the ATC in FU3 is superb, even today.Yes, the simulation of floatplanes in FU3 is light years ahead of that in FS2002. Has this been improved in FS2004 ?What about weather ? Does FU3 still do this better than any other flight simulator ?Chris Low.

[Guest Pieter]

>Just how good is the ATC system in FS2004 ?Not too bad, but not too good either. FU3 ATC is strict and must be used at all controlled airports. If you don't announce yourself, FS ATC ignores you completely and lets you take off from any major airport without saying a word. However, if one starts with the typical procedures it keeps track and hands one down through the levels as good as it can get ;-). On some flights it tends to "over react" and doesn't allow for a wider circuit for real fast aircraft. Accordingly it then shunts one from one frequency to another (tower/approach/tower/approach, etc.) - real confusing. It also lack some intellegence as it doesn't really give correct instructions for flight level transfers. However again, I did find quite a few times with FU3 that ATC has lost me, even close to landing after announcing me as number one it then out of the blue gives another aircraft the runway for takeoff seconds before I touch down so that we meet on the numbers too late for evasive actions...>...floatplanes...Yes - it's much better now, more "real" water areas and nice bush flying areas.>What about weather ?It does have on-line access to real weather as you fly, but the clouds still hit me hard on frame rates even on my 2.4gHz P4 rendering the effect and model smoothness fairly useless. One can now really set the weather manually close to the way I'm used to with FU. The FU3 rain drops are the winner!PieterPS I would say that MSFS gives one quite value for the money invested. But it would always remain a personal preference. The only thing I hate is the slow reacting gauges. FS is not smooth, except perhaps to lay down yet another

[Christopher Low 5,353]

*** However again, I did find quite a few times with FU3 that ATC has lost me, even close to landing after announcing me as number one it then out of the blue gives another aircraft the runway for takeoff seconds before I touch down so that we meet on the numbers too late for evasive actions... ***I have never experienced a waiting plane being given clearance for departure BEFORE the controller has asked me to "go around". However, I have been on final approach to an empty runway numerous times (with a plane waiting to depart), only to be told to "....go around, traffic on the runway....", followed by "(waiting plane), cleared for take off......." :-fumeChris Low.

[Guest R_Driscoll]

Now I can't stop. JP is spot on of course. The sim itself feels right, and is immersive, creating a wonderful environment where just flying is thrilling. Reducing it to numbers doesn't explain that effect.But I chose it initially because of the numbers and that good FU2 demo, and also because I wanted proper scenery out of the plane window, and after some careful research, FU3 had the best numbers. These were:1) 4 m per pixel ground scenery data2) competent ATC (not as good as ATP, but competent)3) photographic scenery over a 30m mesh4) weather. Weather. and Weather. FU2's was just beyond believability, the feel of sitting in my wood and canvas Beaver with rain hammering on the roof, wind dropping and throwing me around, lightning crashing etc. Volumetric clouds. Vertical drafts. Raindrops. Sunset, mist, cloud layers, sun/moon/stars, ... FU3's was even more realistic.Of these, scenery was and is the most important to me - which is why Sky Harbour is my favourite airport (sorry Hans!) - you take off past a few cows, the runway throwing you violently sideways, thru some trees, over the town and river, and next moment you have these amazing mountains with their inviting (and very deep) valleys all minutes away. That is why FU3 is unforgettable.Then a while later I discovered scenery models. How good is it flying around St Pauls or Guys' Hptl and knowing I built them. Not Chris Wren, the LPA or anyone else. Me. With my little text editor. I think many of us here have had that joy of making something for FU3 - a new airport, or a package, or some little bit that has helped others enjoy the sim. Its a great feeling.RobD.