Opinions wanted on these FU3 features

[Guest Pieter]

Chris,There is unfortunately no way that FU3 can truely simulate the Dash. Fanda's (Oleksiy Frolov) Dash 8 for MSFS is the only way to really experience this aircraft! ;-) I'm not going into all the detail here more than saying that the prop settings and the pilot control of the Dash on ground can't be simulated in FU3 ("During the taxi Dash-8 is normally steered

[Christopher Low 5,353]

Pete,No, what I mean is something more subtle. The ground handling of Jon's Dash 8 (and I apologise to him here if this sounds offensive) reminds me of the planes in MSFS. When a certain power level is reached (which is not much more than idle), the plane does not gradually start moving....it leaps forward. That can't be right...can it ?When I increase power in the Beechjet, the plane starts moving slowly. It really feels that it is struggling to overcome inertia. In complete contrast, the Dash 8 feels like it's on ice :-eekChris Low.

[Guest effyouthree]

Chris,Pieter has it quite right. The Dash-8 is modelled as a piston engine with constant-speed props. I did play with the 'beta' control aspect but found it too touchy. Specifically, the 'zero' or 100% feather point was VERY narrow. One requires finer control around zero than at either end but this was not possible. If someone would like to try it, I have version of the flight model which does this as I wanted to model reverse beta. The standard model varies pitch between 0 and 20 degrees, the modified one between -10 and +20 (with different prop settings to compensate) but it's real hard on the ground - if you think the standard one is touchy...A couple more things:* Yep, on the ground, both the Dash-8 and DHC-6 steer with a handle (which, as one Dash-8 pilot said, was rather 'dicky'). After witnessing a crosswind landing from the right seat of a DHC-6, I realised that the nosewheel isn't engaged until you reach a very low speed, although the pilot said that many times he's decided to leave it engaged during takeoff as using the brakes to steer seriously increases the takeoff roll.* In the real thing, the ECU regulates engine power automatically. In our case, we can't do that but I adjusted the settings so she doesn't move at idle but moves off withh just a couple of 'taps' on the throttle. In this respect, think of the throttle as the pitch control. As you increase the pitch, the engines must produce more power to maintain a constant prop speed. BTW, it's 2500shp each engine ;)* On the ground, I agree that the Dash-8 needs more drag. Not much but a bit more. Of course, this requires readjusting the engine model settings. I believe I got closer with the DHC-6. Any comments? * The pitch control in FU3 is fairly slow, limiting precision somewhat.* The Dash-8 is due for re-release soon. I had to recreate the entire plane from a Baron as there was something amiss with the cockpit and TFT couldn't edit it (I could, but only on my original PC :-( ). I will post a message asking for input (not this thread) shortly.:-waveRegards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

[Guest Motormouse]

Yep thats' correct Chris, the Dash 8 will taxi around quite happily just above 'idle' setting, the reason for the behaviour is quite simple really. As Pieter and Jon say, the engine fuel setting is controlled by the EEC, (engine computer) in ground 'beta' range, the 'throttle levers' are then giving you direct control of propellor pitch,at low forward speeds a propellor is more efficient at moving air; silly statistic coming up....for each single revolution of the prop, an air mass the equivalent of 2.5 tonnes is on the move !!Contrast that with the Emb145 jets that I also taxi around,(both aircraft are roughly the same weight) it needs a good half-throttle or more to develop enought thrust to ,as you correctly say, overcome the inertia, then the throttle is moved back to 'idle' and you have to keep your feet on the brakes to stop it getting toooo fast!! Jet engines take time to develop thrust, and likewise to reduce thrust,with a (turbo)prop its' more instantaneous.:-wavePete

[Christopher Low 5,353]

Pete,Sorry to labour the point, but there should still be a feeling of "weight" involved as the plane overcomes inertia.Chris Low.

[Guest effyouthree]

Chris,Yes, I agree but exactly how did you intend 'feeling' it? Having to throttle-up over a threshold, then the aircraft moving off and accelerating (requiring you to throttle-down slightly) is about as much 'feel' as one can get without a motion platform!Actually, few platforms actually model any movement at all during this phase although I remember once where I throttled-up to move off before releasing the parking brake. I hadn't noticed the nose bearing down as I applied throttle (it's hard to tell anything when you attempt to fly a high-powered military aircraft with no training...) and, upon releasing the brake, the platform shot up about 12", I hit my nose on the glare shield and my headphones fell off. It was totally embarrassing ;) All this said, I'll repeat what I said yesterday; if you can suggest how you would like it to work, along with any other changes, I'll put them into the next flight model. As you can understand, engine/prop response (around idle) and ground drag interact a lot. A small increase in ground drag will require at least 50% throttle to move off, yet makes little difference once rolling. The biggest problem many people have with ground control in the Dash-8 (and DHC-6) is leaving the prop on '

[Guest R_Driscoll]

I still don't fully understand why the Dash 8 surges, but I found the same points being made in a recent computer pilot magazine article, that turboprops do surge in taxiing once past a critical AOA on the propellor blades, so this is realistic, and that pilot's are constantly using reverse pitch to keep the speed constant, leading to the distinctive noise on a taxiing turboprop - the wahh..wahhh...wahhh noise. Anyway, congrats to Jon for modelling this effect so well given the piston limitations of FU3.