Playing with clouds

[Guest R_Driscoll]

I've been experimenting a bit with clouds - I noticed that some of my latest pics have a red tinge (no not the Juvanta 2000 glasses!) and realised that I've slipped back to using an older version of my flt3.cfg file when I installed the UK expansion. So here are some better pics.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/106872.jpgSome nice cloud banks.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/106875.jpgFlying over woods, distant clouds a little orange but better.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/106877.jpgDistant clouds still gold from setting sun.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/106878.jpgPretty effect as runway lights blink on downwind.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/106876.jpgLining up at sunset.

[Guest esveld]

What a nice scenery and plane. Do I understand you well? So if one install the UK packages, one has to correct some settin gin the cnf file?The airport seems to be London City, but which Cesna are you flying?Erik Esveld

[Guest R_Driscoll]

Hi Erik, no you don't have to install or correct any settings in the configuration file. You can use the same "flt3.cfg" file for all areas.The configuration file has many settings. By playing with these settings it is possible to improve the visual appearance of FU3. Some initial work was done by the developers at LGS, especially Peter James, who gave hints on how to tweak the configuration settings. Laurie Doering set up a weather website in which he gave lots of good ideas for improved sunsets, rain, snow etc. I put my version of the "flt3.cfg" file on Avsim some time ago:http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=17358This included and improved on Laurie's ideas, but also introduced some new things, for example random start-up air configurations (for example, different optical depth, colour scattering.But since then (over two years ago!) I have made further progress, with help from Jon Point and comments from others such as glidernut. This gave whiter clouds, better colours.When I reinstalled FU3 recently I overwrote the file with the version on the backup disk without realising! And I didn't notice until I saw the red tinge in a picture I uploaded to the web site.The plane is Steve Hess' famous Archer. I'm not really sure which version, but I think its the second option below:June version:http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=16734July version:http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=17036I understand that it borrows internal cockpit graphics (with permission) from one of the MSFS plane developers.Thanks for the feedback,Cheers,RobD.

[Guest esveld]

Hello Rob, thanks for the advice.Just yesterday night I had my maiden flight in the Piper Arrow III from Steve Hess. I downloaded a whole bunch of neat planes but I did see the "famous Archer". Boy o boy, what is that DC3 a neat plane. I managed to keep it during take-off, bud sadly crashed it later during heavy fog. I didn't dare to install Ansgar's B747 yet, and to crash with 400 people on board.I own a copy of FUIII for some years now, but hardware problems spolied the fun of flying. Like my other sim PP99, the compagny support for the sim died away long ago, but when I just recently saw what all you boys have created for this product... I felt like a small boy being lost in a candy store.Now I updated the 3DFX drivers, the things seems to work finally.From Chris I received his extended enhancements for the Seattle and Sanfran region. The latter I just start to explore.Unfortunately, the seattle region seems to have a problem. The game exits upon displaying airport location selection map. Al so, it happens more than often that the game freezes the PC completely.The this that make me hesitate to install the UKS and Switzerland regions. Thanks for you FU3.CNF file, I'll try to explore the options there. Something that puzzeld me in FU3 is the lack of haze in bad weather (rain) with a dark overcast. If you still on the ground you can see the blue sky near the crystal clear horizon. Only when you altitude apprached the cloud deck, will the overall light intensity drop.Light effects are not nearly as dramatic as in your screen shots.Talking about sunset's etc. Somehow the clock in the aircraft always starts at noon, even if a fly in the evening. Is that common practice for dead reconing or so? The keyboard reference manual says that "D" will progress the hour. But I don't see any movement in sun position. By the way, in the undervalued sim Pro Pilot '99, the sun, moon, stars and planets were accurately linked to the simulated time and place. I once compared the night sky in the simulator with the actual sky outside (same place , date and time) and the realy matched! Until now I have not seen any stars in FU3, but again that might be due to hardware limitations.Cheers Erik

[Guest glidernut]

Erik,Welcom abord.

[Christopher Low 5,341]

Erik,You should be OK with Seattle 2005 as long as you follow the installation instructions precisely. Do you have the outer terrain scenery installed ? Do you have any other scenery/airport packages installed ? Have you removed the "extra airports" as I suggested ?Can you let me know exactly what you have done ?Chris Low.

[Guest R_Driscoll]

I'll also try to answer some of your points, and others will probably add comments too.1) Try flying the 747. Just line her up on the San Fran runway, "E" to start the motors, drop the brakes, add power (reverse order if you're a real pilot) and that's all you need to get UP there. Getting DOWN is your problem. :-) 2) Crashes in Seattle: find your flight3packages folder. It may have too many packages (limit depends on things such as whether you have installed outer terrain or not). Try deleting a few. Chris could you give you more specific advice on which ones it is best to delete, but you should find that this will make Seattle work again.3) You can set HAZE as an option if your OPTIONS menu in FU3. Use "ALT-O" whilst flying, or click on the options icon from the main page. The haze setting is under "WEATHER" options. I try to put the indicator somewhere near the middle of the word "haze" on the scale (try it and you'll see what I mean).4) Don't install Switzerland. It is being redeveloped. If you want to install UK, you can't do this from Avsim, (its too large) and you'll need to contact someone by email to get UK. Send me an email and I'll give you the details.5) the clock in most of the aircraft is a time elapsed clock, i.e. used for timing events for VFR navigation - you can reset it for each leg of a planned flight for example. Some of the planes have time of day clocks, but I think most are elapsed time. You're not starting at noon everytime!6) changing time of day: just ignore glidernut (Sorry pardner! I don't mean that! Glidernut is wonderful!! brilliant!! always correct!! ). What he meant to say was use LOWERCASE 'd' to advance time of day, and 'CTRL-d' to decrease time of day. You can also use 's', 'CTRL-s' for time of year and 'w', 'CTRL-w' for the moon phase. According to the manual.7) for the Seattle region (and probably the San Fran region) the stars should match. Two ways to see stars: 1) on a clear day advance the time until it gets dark (duhh!), or 2) exit the DC3 before the stairs have been wheeled into place. Let me know how you go.Thanks for the questions! Keep 'em coming (doesn't mean I can answer them).RobD.

[Guest Seadog]

This and your previous post in this thread, Rob, are the two single most useful to general users of FU3 I have seen in my time monitoring and occasionally participating in this group.I'm not a programmer, have no skills in that area, and have neither the time nor ambition to be one. I just want to enjoy the full richness of the program, which you and your similarly brilliant colleagues enhance incrementally every week. I'm quite frankly stunned by the level of dedication to advancing the program that you evince, but, then, that's the nature of a dedicated hobbyist.I own a lot of flight sim programs I've never had a chance to use for lack of time, buying them, and banking them against the day I could devote some time to them. I want it to be a relaxing, rather than intense, experience. For me, mastering the control interface has made it too intense. I can't just crank it up and go have fun. I don't want arcade, but I can't seem to find a relatively easy way to simulate real flight.I don't mind that it requires mastery of the physics of flight dynamics or controlling electronic navigation aids. What I mind is the enormous difference between using the available controls in an actual airplane and the way one must control them on a PC. In short, I find the necessity of relying on the keyboard to be so unnatural that it entirely dissipates the suspension of disbelief needed to enagage in the fiction of simulation as if it were real, or nearly so. I have the CH USB yoke with all the levers and the CH Pro Pedals. I can't get them to respond accurately. Some inputs are too weak and some are too strong. Fussing with the sensitivity and dead zone settings is on the order of witch doctoring, hit and miss.I have not a single love, as I own MSFS from DOS on up to current. But I love the lyrically lush scenery of FU3, and appreciate that it was and remains advanced of MS programs in many ways, then and now. And I'm essentially a fan of VFR and not interested in pretending to be an airline Captain.Long ago, in a universe far away, I was introduced as an aeronautical engineering freshman to programming a barn-sized IBM mainframe in FORTRAN. Difficult events ensued, I was an infantry soldier in a war far from from home, and my return did not include continuing that line of education. So my budding talent in this field was truncated early on, but not so my empathy for the concepts.You guys who are doing the heavy lifting are quanta above mere users like myself. You inherently know from your immersion in the program which files in the Avsim Library are useful and which aren't. You share among yourselves new developments, many of which are never made publicly available for download from Avsim, sometimes for the very good reason you aren't satisfied enough with them to release them publicly.Nevertheless, highly interested users like myself are left with nothing but chatter amongst the deep insiders. To his everlasting credit, perfectionist that he is, Chris Low shares his product all the while complaining it isn't the very best he's capable of, and then redoubles his efforts to improve it and share it again.Rob, in exchange for major (and sincere) flattery, you once offered to build me the model of my choice. Instead, I ask you to update on the Avsim library your flight3.cfg file, now 2 and a half years old. I ask that someone take on the task of rationalizing the usefulness of the exisitng files in that library, review them for appropriateness in default installations, in installations as refined by your group of experts. It can't all be good and it can't all be bad. It can't all be appropriate for a default installation as well as one enhanced by you happy band of programmers. Some rationalizing matrix is necessary for mere users.Just now, mere users receive short rations. The inside group of program enhancers is thriving. A little of that trickles out for the benefit of mere users, but not much. Chris remains the beacon in that regard. If it isn't in the Avsim Library or enthusiastically promoted for private distribution as Chris does, it doesn't actually help anybody beyond the circle of about 20 of you, and you under-appreciate your own contributions if that's the limit of your universe. Your work is nothing short of brilliant, selfless, but is hidden under a bushel, to evoke the Biblical notion.Please, share. Not just among yourselves, but among the public at large who admire and rely on you.Respectfully, Seadog

[Guest esveld]

Amen.I do agree very much with Seadog. Hail to those that invested so much time in this product. and take the effort to finish it and share it with the others. But Seadog, as a novice avsim member I do not fully agree with you regarding the obsureness of the FU3 development results.Looking back in the FU3 forum and library seems rather overwhelming at the start, but as this and other threads points out, one is promptly assisted by THE enthousiasts if you only ask. Futhermore, all the zip files contain clear documentations. But I also wondered why nobody of those who apparently spend so much time on FU3, did not make a site which summarised the latest versions of their efforts with links to AVSIM or otherwise. Looking for it, I noticed that many people tried so before with FU2&3, but most of the sites have been abandoned or even disappeared like hotmail accounts.The answers probably is that any web site is always lagging behind the actual developments, so that a web log should be the prefered form. Voila : this discussion forum.Futhermore it seemed that the actual hosting is a problem. Those geocitie sites apparently suffer from bandwith limitation etc. I do have some (40Mb) web space available if somebody is in need for that.But most importantly, how many new users are starting with FU3 everyday? In 2005 this would be perhaps 20-50? I don't have a clue, but it wouldn't be by the thousands. Chris, honestly I don't know yet what is the problem. Acually, I did not dare to bother you with this before I would had time to look further at the problem, and did a re-install of your files.I did install the full outer scenery (is that correct or not) and followed you instructions explicitely. But perhaps some of the files are corrupted. Near oakland I got the messagebox that one of the geotiles was missing. Probably the file is corrupted. So the best thing is to install your files. Just to be sure, the extra planes (.res files) have no connection with the scenery setup I presume. So a program crash during mapview will can never be coused by the non-standard planes, right?By the way, what is a PADlock view?yours humbleErik

[Christopher Low 5,341]

Erik,You are having problems with the SANFRAN region ?! :-eek That's a new one on me. It's usually Seattle that generates all the heartache, mainly due to the "airport icon limit". With respect to geotiles, my packs do not interfere with these in any way, so perhaps you have an existing FU3 install error ?You shouldn't have a problem with the outer terrain scenery installed....unless you have added other airport packages. The number of airport icons in the Seattle region ALSO INCLUDES THOSE IN THE OUTER TERRAIN. If you haven't added any, then you shouldn't experience any problems. Hans has tested both of my packs on his PC, and they are apparently working fine.Did you delete those "extra airport" folders that I suggested ?Chris Low.

[Christopher Low 5,341]

Seadog,You are absolutely correct, and I humbly offer my apologies. The only reason that I haven't uploaded my packs to the FU3 file library is because users have experienced problems in the past. However, I have tried to be as careful as possible with Seattle 2005 (in other words, I have not included daft "terrain flattening" batch files. Quite how I expected THEM to work is anyone's guess ;-))Anyway, just as soon as I have solved Erik's problem with Seattle 2005, I will upload BOTH packs to the file library. I will then upload add-on packages (including SANFRAN PYLONS) for the SanFran region just as soon as they are completed.Cheers !Chris Low.

[Guest Seadog]

Thanks very much, Chris. While I know how to ask for and receive them from you by email, I'm betting there are more than a few folks who just read these posts and the file library entries and have little clue how to get the latest and greatest you guys have brilliantly created. :-halo As for the other areas I mentioned, I'm going to construct separate posts. I realize asking anyone to rationalize the 539 files in the library is a bit much. But I'm going to start with a separate post on my other area of concern by asking readers to advise how they set sensitivity and null (or dead) zones. It may be that there is no common thread to those settings, but one will never know to a certainty without asking.For instance, there is agreement on how to set them for helicopter sims. There, the consensus is to set all axes to maximum sensitivity and minimum dead zones. I'm hoping to learn whether there is anything close to a consensus for such settings applicable to general aviation sims. The helicopter sim gurus only note that their settings are quite different to what they would use for GA, but never explicitly say what the differences are.I greatly look forward to your finished work. The San Francisco Bay Area is so naturally beautiful, it often takes my breath away. I once had the good fortune to sail a little day sailer from Sausalito over to the San Francisco Marina District and back, literally dwarfed by the giant ocean freighters gliding to their berths. It's a great pity FU3 doesn't include Vancouver, BC, as that harbor area is equally stunning with its mid-harbor floating fuel docks, garishly lit by night, and busy seaplane traffic amidst the shipping, all set against gorgeous hilly terrain. Thanks again for all your generous efforts.-Seadog

[Guest esveld]

Dear Chris,I will look at it during the weekend, when I can sit behind the actual computer. Once our baby has come (soon) there will be little time left perhaps.:-bluegrab The installation I did was:-) uninstall FU3 and delete the remaindersa) New install of FU3 with FU2...... (takes a while):( Runned the UK version of the patch, latest version I think. (I have a Dutch version of FU3, that is a Dutch translated version of the manual)For each region c) Renamed the .txt files to .txt.bakd) Made a back-up copy of the original airport directory e) and I've added your files into the original airports dir. Since I figured you made only partly modifications and extensions. f) added the rest such as the model dirs (?) and other stuff in the zips which I don'recall by heart. The package directory did not exist yet.g) installed new airplane (.res files).Thanks for your very prompt repliesErik

[Guest effyouthree]

I dunno about keeping things between developers? I only 'create to release' however, as mentioned here, sometimes things don't work out so well and we leave them to come back later. The AM radio towers (another thread here) are a great example. I did them years ago for my own interest and wasn't happy with the results. When Chris mentioned he'd like something better than the norm, I revived my old files and spent an evening (or 2) trying some different tricks and voila!One problem we developers all have is that everyone wants everything but we can only do so much. The reason I supply Chris with models the way I do is:- He knows what he wants.- He WILL use them if he's happy with them. This means all users of his packages get them.- Simply uploading a few models here and there doesn't mean anyone gets to enjoy them as many don't wish to play in FLED.- In only asking for models, I can use the modelling time as a distraction from aircraft creation, which is a long process. So, don't ask me for a specific model but offer an opinion on how it would help and if everyone could use it. If the benefits are great enough, I'll do it! I think the same applies to many developers here.I do however agree that we need to sort the library and this should be done by the uploaders, I believe. Chris has gone ahead and done this many times and I have once. Those developers who have left the scene can have their stuff relegated to the archives section (this would require a different download library but would reduce the clutter a lot.Any other ideas?:-waveRegards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

[Christopher Low 5,341]

Seadog,I have always been fascinated by the San Francisco Bay area, and when I saw that Looking Glass Studios had recreated this area in FU2, I was very pleased :-)I have seen the Bay area in real life, but only very briefly. This was October 1995, and after getting a lovely view from the air (including the Golden Gate bridge), we passed over the massive Hayward-San Mateo bridge (the FU3 version now has electricity pylons running along its entire length), before turning onto final approach to runway 28R at San Francisco International. From there, we hired a mini van, and proceeded to DRIVE across that huge bridge (seven miles long), before heading out past Livermore and through the Altamont Pass (with its hundreds of wind turbines), and then out across the Central Valley to our destination (a timeshare complex called Bass Lake, which is near a town called Oakhurst).We stayed there for a week, but we decided to leave a day early...so that we could have a day to explore the area near San Francisco. We stayed in a motel in Oakland, and had enough time to drive north to Richmond, cross another huge bridge (the Richmond-San Rafael bridge), and then turned south. This took us through the Mill Valley tunnel (the FU3 scenery now has a pylon sat right on top of this)....and when we exited the far end, we could see the Golden Gate bridge in the near distance. We turned off the highway (just before the bridge crossing itself), and made our way to a scenic viewpoint on the Marin Headlands. This provided a fantastic view of the bridge itself, Angel Island and Alcatraz Island to the left, San Francisco in the distance, and the Pacific Ocean to the right. An AWESOME view. A container ship passed underneath the bridge as we were watching (I filmed this with my camcorder), which is something that you can see an oil tanker doing in FU3 if you have my SanFran pack installed (it was heading out into the ocean).After intoxicating ourselves with the scenery :-) we made our way across the bridge, through San Francisco (including UP one or two of those famous streets, and past one of THOSE trams), and then back to Oakland via the lower deck of the Bay bridge.A truly wonderful place. I would love to return there one day for an extended period of time, and explore all those areas of the FU2/3 scenery that I have become so familiar with (San Jose, Sacramento, the Napa Valley, Lake Berryessa).Anyway, back to the present day :-) An e-mail from Ansgar last night has persuaded me to delay uploading Seattle 2005 to the FU3 file library here at AVSIM Online. I need to make yet more modifications to the AI parking spots at many of the airports. That's all that I am prepared (allowed ?) to say at the present time ;-)Chris Low.