Flt3 object modeling 101 help please.

[Guest juvat2]

Well,I thought I was near done with the Admiralty Head station house. So I plunked it near seatac to get a look at it.As you can see, it's in a mess. Way to large, some textures blacked out for some reason.Couple of shots from Flt3, one from Deep Exploration.JimB

[agtim 0]

Hi Jim,1. you will have to resize the model at the bsp stage:bsp yourmodel.e -es.92 -s.1last parameter is the scale factor, make it smaller (-s.05)2. There are no beautifull red in the Seattle palette :-(you must create the mip map of the texture for seattle using seattle palette, use Roberts FixMip Program for this.You can convert palette and preview result.There is a tutorial for FixMip.3. you can mail the model to me if you want a direct support :-)good luck:-wave agtim

[Guest juvat2]

Hi,The palette I used was for seattle. The palette I got from within Robs FixMip tool. The red roof color was a direct eye-dropper selection and floodfill from the seattle palette r-142, g-6, b-5.Each texture I saved as gif, dimensions a power of 2 and each with the palette.I will go through each one with Robs tool and look for my error.As for the scaling with bsp.exe: What model units should I have used when I built this model originally? Meters, inches, feet, centimeter's?For example here is the length of the building as rendered looking from the front as reported by Sketchup.38' 4 7/16" Should I convert model to decimal/inch, decimal/feet, decimal/meter, etc before I convert it to Bin with bsp.exe?Thank you,JimB

[Guest Ansgar]

Hi Jim,as far as I know FU3 in general works in the metric unit system.That will mean you have to scale everything in metric meters!Sure you can develop also in inches, feet or mils. But before integrating it in FU3 you have to resize it to metric meters.Two possible way

[Guest glidernut]

JimB,So its to big, yes thats normal ferst time round, you hav to skail it douwn in your modelingprogram. I jenaraly hav to go from modeling program to FU3 meny times bifor geting the scail right, and even then, I never quight got it ded right, only rufly right.I never got as far as seting the skail peramiters in the modeling program, and or useingthe bsp.cfg's skail featcher, I forget wether its feet and inches or meaters.What modeling program are you useing? I use 3D Studio MAX, Jon Point uses Anim8ter,Andre Meystre is at home in any modeling program, and Robert Driscoll, ho dear, RbDdusant use a modeling program at all, he's go his owne way of doing things with munbers,dont ask.I had a go at geting your lighthouws in FU3.The BSP didant like it, so I had a look at it in 3D Studio MAX and sor that it had camaralighting angls, I thort FU3 dont use camara lighting angls?!?!, so I deleted them from the lighthous seen and tryed agen to get it throo BSP agen, this time it went throo, althowit took at leest 5 minits for BSP to finish.Having got the lighthous to .bin, I set about the mips. Acording to modelvewer there was only one gif needed, not several like the number ofsnaps that cum with the lighthous sergested, so I asoomed that parts of the model hadbeen renderd by coulers, ie, RGB, this sort of rendering dont use pichers, just colernumbers.So I just terned the one gif into a mip. Useing RobD's Fixmip, I remember tinking that you got the pouwer of 2 rool right, but I thort you had exeded the maximum siz limit of 256, thats if 256 is the maximum siz linit, I wasant shoower about that, so I did 2 mips,one at 256 and one at the biger siz you supliyed us with.Well acording to ModelVewer the bin and mip worked perfectly, so I put them in GEN,but on serlecting your lighthous in the Fled model window it crashed Fled.I tryed it with the other mip but it still crashed Fled.After crashing Fled about 5 times I giv up.I would hav toled you this at the time but I was bizy with other stuf and it woudant of helped you anyway.Althow I might be abl to help you go from 3ds to bin?!If to do this you are opening a DOS prompt and typing in namse then I can help.Insted of opening a DOS prompt and typing in namse I use a bat file insted.Its ded simpl and fast.Do you want my bat file?glidernut.

[Guest juvat2]

Hi,Holy crap shooters, the max size is 256? I thought it was 512x512,256,128,64,32 or any combination. Another major bungle on my part. Back to PSP I go and get this right. The 512 max is for Jas models maybe.Modeling program I'm using is Sketchup and I will output to .3ds using correct units.Here's a shot of the AH Light Tower in work. Way to many polygons for now. Needs handrail, lite, texture.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/116750.jpgBye, JimB

[Guest R_Driscoll]

I;m not sure I follow exactly what you have done. You talked about saving GIF's with their palettes, and FixMip should be able to convert from the palette used in the GIF to the standard Seattle palette, so that shouldn't be a problem. For example if the roof was done as a material (an RGB material), rather than as a texture (which uses a MIP file), then it should have come out correctly. But if it is has been converted to a GIF, then the MIP will need to be generated using fixmip again. For my own models, I use about 99% MIP files and about 1% RGB materials, because FU3 hazes the two differently, and anyway, an RGB has no texture. But RGB's can save space and time, so I use them for cables, bases for poles, a few things like that.glidernut is right - I have tried to master these fancy graphics programs and made a few things with them, but I can't get the hang of them. I think I'm a bit odd (don't say anything!) - I can think in 3D but I can't manipulate things in 3D so well - I lose track of what I'm looking at. I think I shouldn't drive a car.Cheers all,RobD.

[Guest juvat2]

I give up,I don't have the intellect I guess to use fixmip or anything. Here is the model in 3ds, the textures in jpeg, bmp and gif. I have not converted this one to bin.2 shots of the error fixmip reports. 1 shot of the PSP7 bmp or jpg to gif conversion options. I've tried all combinations of the options offered by PSP7 to convert to gif hoping this was the source of the fixmip error.Maybe I've got the textures files named wrong for Flt3. Certainly some are to long. Something I thought I coud fiddle with later. Is it correct that the file names can not be more than 8 digits, with the last 1 or 2 digits a number; ie 1 or 10. The same with the model naming?Only allowed to upload 2 attachments.Shots of the error attached only

[Guest juvat2]

Shot of the PSP7 options screen for convert to gif and hopefully the zip file of the model and textures.Zips to big to upload by.jimb

[Guest Ansgar]

Dear Jim,here we are in a forum where we would like to help an user / developer to solve his problem BEFORE he gives up everything!So pls. be a bit more patient to yourself and give us a chance to help you. If WE give it up to help you it

[Guest juvat2]

Robert has nice simple instructions accompaning his FixMip4pt4 tool. Within it tells exactly what to do incase of an error. In my case I had forgotten the last "" for both entries of the fixmip ini. FixMip worked wonderfully after I removed my head from my behind. So now I'm trying to figure out the correct scale. I used this(-s.1), but was to small. I used -s.5 and it got smaller. I used no -s.x entry and now the model is to small and up-side-down.Time to get some sleep.Bye,JimB

[Guest fu3]

Jim,In 3D editors, units are 'just' units. They are not feet, metres, angstroms, parsecs or townships (1 township = 48 furlongs). *** It only matters when you compile it with BSP.EXE. ***FU3 uses metres as a universal measurement so, make it whatever size suits you. I often make things extremely large when mapping textures, as most programs have a 'granularity' limit when placing textures. *Mostly I use 10x, which results in having to use the '-s.1' switch in BSP. *Sometimes (especially with large objects like TV towers, I use feet because that's what my source info is in. I then use the '-s.3048' switch to convert from feet to metres. *For really small stuff, use inches and use the '-s.0254' switch to convert from inches to metres (or millimetres and use -s.001).* For anything that has to fit into a terrain 'footprint', use metres, because you can take measurements directly from FLED and it will fit much better. I learned this with the Carquinez Bridges!Y'all have fun now :-wave

[Guest juvat2]

Hi Everybody,Thankyou for all your wonderful help. I've uploaded the model just now. Has nite textures. Please feel free to "ginsu knife" it if you like. Didn't come out to bad I think. The nite textures I could have fine-tuned better maybe. Included is my original 3ds and textures in jpg and gif. No package, it's just the object with mips.Gotta go to work now, thankyou again. The roof red looks okay I hope?JimBhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/117188.jpg

[Guest Ansgar]

Hello Jim,congrats for the good result! It seems it was a good idea to continue the development before you give up. Pls. continue all the nice work to help the developers here around. A small tip: Try allways to use as less polygons as possible for the models with an maximum effect if we watch from middle to far distances, because each poly costs framerate in FU3. Only models which are placed behind an players starting point should look better (higher resolution) because there you can see it most close to the object.Best regards :-)AnsgarP.S.: @Jon Point - did you received my mail concerning the moving gear doors?

[Guest juvat2]

Hi,I've got more questions as I've continued on to the lite tower.(ModelViewer reports it as 221 polygons; but I got 8 to 12 fs with my voodoo V5 set to 4saa+ forced 32bit and Flt3 at 1024x768. I still have to add the rotating lite "widget".)Station keepers house update-I removed 180ish excess polygons, edited textures-so now it's 3 less textures.Yet to upload. Maybe will upload when I get this litehouse done). 1) ...about transparency. Am I remembering correctly that there's a way to edit the ".E" file to specify a RGB value that should be rendered transparent? Here I'll post the heading to the .e file, the parts of the texture that has rgb of 0,255,0 (green)which I'd like to set as transparent. The texture is for the tower railing(AHLTra1).2) ...the faces in the .3ds models that comprise the railing. Could you all please give me instructions on how to select just those faces and make them double-sided using Anim8tor? I have 3dsMax 2.5 but since I've installed dx9c, 3dsMax crashes, so I can't use it anymore.Thank you,JimBBEGIN "Model"COMMENT{// Converted by 3ds2e from: ahlt10}MATERIALS{1," -- default --",,RGB 255,255,255,TRANSP 0;2,"FrontColor",,RGB 153,153,102,TRANSP 0;3,"AHLTbm1-Texture",,TMAP "AHLTbm1.gif",0,TRANSP 0;4,"AHLTbt1-Texture",,TMAP "AHLTbt1.gif",0,TRANSP 0;5,"AHLTr1-Texture",,TMAP "AHLTr1.gif",0,TRANSP 0;6,"AHLTw1-Texture",,TMAP "AHLTw1.gif",0,TRANSP 0;7,"AHLTwb1-Texture",,TMAP "AHLTwb1.gif",0,TRANSP 0;8,"AHLTra1-Texture",,TMAP "AHLTra1.gif",0,TRANSP 0;}