hey Tom, are we allowed to discuss anything anymore?

[Guest]

Tom, I hope you don't have to take this -- I'll help you click on the "Delete Thead" key :7Kerke

[Guest]

Please see my other note.....you don't get a say in making the rules because you don't own it. The same way that subscribers, without whom there would be no newspaper, do not get any say in what is published. And they pay for the newspaper. You pay nothing here.Mike Stone

[Guest Aidi]

Being a moderator in this forum, I think in all the time I have been here I have locked threads on maybe 3 occasions and removed about 6 posts. I would say that 99% of posts are never touched (or even need to be touched) by a moderator. The majority of "moderating" that we do is in response to alerts we are sent by other forum users who have asked us to look at a particular post, and in most cases its down to profanity. Occasionally we step in when a particular thread starts to get ugly.When it comes to actually locking posts, it normally is due to a post that has already been debated many times in the past.You mention about having a place to discuss things in an "Adult" manner. I expect that this would be taken out of context, and be used to express topics of an "adult" nature whatever that might lead to. To that end, the forums are open to ALL ages both young and old. That is something we have to take very highly into consideration. At times threre is a fine line when we look at threads. We have to look at them from both sides. The subject might at start be a little controversail, but can easily turn into a very good and informative thread. However, it can also turn exactly the opposite direction and get ugly very quickly indeed. Its a catch22 situation for us. Do we or do we not act? Its a hard decision to make at times, but its a responsibility bestowed to those who moderate the forums.That is just my general view on the subject, but i am sure the view of most moderators.http://www.avsim.com/vfr_center/avsim_sig.jpg

[Guest]

unreal....express an honest opinion and you get snided at. everyone can disagree...who cares? I don't see why I can't post why I'm angry.Correct me. I'm an adult. I can take it :)but to suggest this too should just be deleted is the symptom of the whole problem.i'm actually understanding better why most threads (tho not the PIC one I'm so manic about :D) are locked, and that is the wonderful thing about forums, no?Can I not post the concern with real emotion and get the other viewpoint, or must I be a wimp and a kiss***?Mike's opinion is valuable and making me think about it, but I never saw the internet as just another corporate newspaper.So fine...it is, it's changed, I'm mad about it, big deal....I'm probably just lamenting the loss of the freedom this whole invention once represented, and wishing since we make up the user group, that we could bloody well have a fight now and then.whatever...michael

[Guest]

Since I make my living as a writer I *might* have to disagree with you, Mike. It is nothing but the reader's (and okay, the advertisers) who determine what is published.I guess I just don't see the content of what was deleted as threatening Tom's membership.And of course he owns the site, he takes the risk, he makes the rules.Please consider the entirety of what I'm trying to say. I just think we could have a better compromise between the priorities of the publishers and the needs of the "readers".and if not, FINE. I can be wrong, out numbered, whatever, as long as I can ask and get these responses to find that fact out. Then I don't feel frusterated when something's deleted. I would then expect it to be deleted. Whatever the rules are are quite secondary to feeling that the rules are stable so we know what to expect.michaelplease everyone remember this is a thread started in frustration because i know longer feel i know what the rules are.and the line about tom not having to take it?Well...read Mike's analogy. Tom's a good guy. He can take the odd angry letter just like we do in print publishing. it's no more reasonable to claim one can't criticize as it would be to claim we can't post our compliments, and this is the ONLY time i've invoked Tom's name in any context other than a complimentary one.

[Guest SoarPics]

Yawn...Michael, we are all guests here. It's that simple.If you wish to have a place you envision I suggest a site recently started by some of the folks from the Flightsim forum (I think some of them frequent here also). They seem to be very loose in their rules and willing to take on just about anything. Nice folks, too.http://www.neumanflight.com/yabbse/index.php?board=1Hey, maybe you can bring this issue up there!! But to be honest it's getting to be pretty old stuff here.From another kiss a** premadonna wanabe, and all in good spirit. :-beerchug

[Guest]

well then I apologize. I guess things are changed and it IS too difficult to retain any sort of civility -- if tom give's an inch...okay, okay, okay....the thread itself is demonstrating the mods and tom's sometimes swift hand.perhaps the problem is that they are too efficient ;) in deleting so I have never witnessed how out of control it will get as everyone who doesn't even like the topic will actual post just to say they don't like the topic (why, I'll never understand) and how they want to get back to talking about aviation which of course my complaining here does not even slightly prevent...I relunctantly admit defeat and sneak off to hide in the dark somewhere....I'm no more likely to experience the net as it was ten years ago as I am to have the hair I had ten years ago...lock it Tom...I'm sure you'd love a more open forum but I SEE THE LIGHT and it isn't going to happen any more....seriously...lock it. I don't mind being a hypocrite :Dmichaelp.s. SoarPics, bless you for the link.

[Guest]

...Actually this suggested 'over-protective' moderation/deletion of threads on this forum has been the subject of 'sarcastic-humour' and poor-taste jokes (from aspiring 'Techo-God-Wannabees') on 'other' forums... ironically they rarely get erased :)I concur (and prefer) the rules to be posted for all to read prior to us going to the effort of posting messages only to find someone has misinterpretted the sarcasim (famous of course in British humour!) or the frustrations of individuals - as being detrimental to the general simming population or casual-viewers!Perhaps, (as I do believe AVSIM to be a more mature site than most!) we should have 'separate sections' ie 'NEWBIES' and 'RANTS' etc, etc - That way the moderator(s) can focus on a specific area with appropriate comments/deletions rather than make sweeping statements, deleting threads and getting people all upset by moderating 'an otherwise interesting read'..... or one that he/she doesn't necessarily agree with!Of course, factor in to this, that it is not 'our personal Web Site', therefore the site-owners can do whatever they wish, but presumably they can also listen as well - constructive critism is still alive and well in our hobby - otherwise why have a forum at all, if not to encourage dialogue!!!..... now what was I looking for on the site....ummmm!

[Guest Lizardo]

But, and I say this gently, this is not the internet, this is Avsim.One talks one way on a street corner, another way in a store. What one talks about in a garage, is not one one talks in a new car showroom. I am sure there is a place, or could be a place, for bikering, strong talk, severe opions about MSN or designers, etc. I myself get weary in this forum right here seeking to know more, or in some small way help, other enthusiasts figure this sim out and yet have to walk over/across the latest "unhappiness". Nothing personal to anyone, but couldn't we take this outside?

[Guest]

BUMP

[Guest]

"British Humour" ??you're being sarcastic, right? :D

[Guest]

its okay I moderated my own thread and deleted it :-)Getting too late (yawn)Peter

[Guest]

I'll spell it out for you...P O I N T T A K E Nokay?clearly by "adult" I was referring to the ability of 2 adults to debate with some emotion and not engage in personal attacks...but as I've already said, some of you by your own posts just proved to me why it is the way it is...a good thread ... my concerns were expained either directly or through the irony of the attitude of some replies...let it go, please, and maybe other's can post complaints, get "scolded", and the thread just goes off into history as it should.it's not like any of you can recall a single negative post under my name ever.give me a break here...michaelEDIT: realize actions speak much louder than words (or rules) and Tom could not possibly have given an explanation one tenth as meaningful as what I just witnessed happen with this in the last two hours. i will continue to support Avsim through banners, etc., and if I get an itch for a fight, I'll go elsewhere. i just hope people bother to actually read this thread and respond in the present instead of to what I wrote two hours ago. i am humbled. i am amazed. the whole place feels five seconds from anarchy! think i'm gonna hire one of you mods to come over next time i have the entire family over for dinner :). you've clearly demonstrated how chaos is not present only due to prevention, and as if I could make it any clearer, I AGREE that if the mods stopped for a week it would be a mess around here.

[Guest N247BK]

Hey,Give Tom a Break!He's just trying to make this a place where people help each other.What's wrong with creating a "Happy Place" for people?Maybe some people just don't know what that feels like.TOM, why don't you set up a "BITC*" forum for all the lonely hearts who are looking for something ..... a fight, love ... whatever it is!This is a place for people helping each other to make Flying available to all us blue collar folks who don't have the rubles to lay down on a real Archer III.

[Guest]

Kerke,Do you have a good source for your 'Big Wooden Spoons' ?