I say no more. Read for yourself.

[Guest Callmecapt]

http://forum.justflight.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30325

[Guest albertomolteni]

Pizza eh... the level of unprofessional behaviour I have seen lately in some of the sim community, is just disgusting.

[Guest coolfront55]

INJUSTICE BRINGS OUT THE WORST IN ALOT OF US!HOPING FOR THE BEST,Jorge

[Gryphon 0]

I think that at best the comments about a 'pizza' may have been ill judged in this instance, and I'm sure Just Flight will do what they can IF they legally can, but ultimately this issue NOT their problem. They, like all of us, are in the same position in that they will no longer get support from PSS unless - as we all sincerely hope - the Phoenix is reborn. Yes they have the master file set and have produced a wrapper that runs from a CD, and they may have developed that wrapper themselves so we can't expect them to give it away.It would be nice if somehow Graham did a deal with JF to get that same 'wrapped' version made available to PSS customers for a 'nominal' cost which covers the CD and postage (no boxed version) by providing a database of all the approved customer base. There will no doubt be issues over confirming that the requests for the CDs come from legitimate customers and it's not from "A N Other" using credentials that belong to someone else.Thought it's very hard, and whenever money is involved opinions can become very heated, I suspect we all have learned hard (and for me distasteful and annoying) lessons and I suspect many of us will no longer buy software assembled and sold in the way PSS did it. Piracy is and will forever be a problem, and there are libraries full of techniques on how to avoid it. PSS's choice was absolutely fine as long as they and their servers remained viable.I don't like the situation either, especially as I will be replacing all of my hardware and migrating to Vista in the next few months and will need to do a full re-install - not something I'm looking forward too but with the help and advice being offered on this forum, I'm certain I can make it work again. It will need manual intervention and a bit of time too. I have complete backups of my complete hard drives to a server but that doesn't help unless restoring back to the same drive.I for one sincerely hope that Graham comes good on his reported comment about ensuring that all of PSS's loyal customers get access to what they have paid for - but I'm not holding my breath. That's not an easy thing to say, but recent events have shown a distinct lack of care and loyalty by those that owned PSS - not the developers or support crew - to their customers and hence my cynicism. I really hope a way will be found to help us (and particularly those who have lost everything), but until Graham and/or JF can come up with the options then if we wish to stay 'legal' we're a bit stuck at present. The other choice has been mentioned and as with life you take your chances.Returning to the JF thread on their forum, I'm not surprised to see it has been closed - and probably rightly. It got off track and overheated from the ill advised 'pizza' reference. But that's just my opinion, and I'm only one voice. Rick

[norman s 15]

Hello,The time has come to stop the threads re the situation with PSS!We are supposed to be acting in a responsible manner in this forum and all I have been seeing is more of the same everytime I log on.I have also had problems since PSS closed its doors however my love of simming lets me get on with this hobby making the best of the situation.Come on all of you life is too short and is for living to the full,not for doing nothing else but grumble.That will not make the situation any better.Norman Bowman

[Guest kiwiwanabe]

Norman,Thank you for your post. You're spot on....Rob, John, Ben and others are dedicating their personal time to help us make the best of a bad situation. They are part of a solution. All the grumblings are, simply, part of the problem. My concern is that the good folks at AVSIM will look at these negative post, many of which promote illegal distribution of still copyrighted materials, and pull the plug on this "unofficial forum."There's an old saying....lead, follow, or get the #### out of the way...For those who can do nothing but complain about PSS and Just Flight....get out of the way. It's been boring for a long while now...Russ Vierra

[Guest DFS]

As some others on this thread have pointed out, the "PSS/Just Flight" discussions seem to have got a trifle out of hand. Not helped, I agree, by Just Flight forum moderators trying to defend themselves against what I personally think is some very unjustified flak. Using the purchase of a pizza as an analogy seems to have caused a few people to lose sight of the main issue. So, here is what Just Flight thinks about the whole business. This is what I think has happened up to now:1) It appears that for whatever reason PSS has had to take down, take off line (or whatever) their website and therefore their file server. 2) This server hosted the files for their download software.3) Customers of PSS who purchased software in the past and now wish to re-install it can't download the files.4) Customers of PSS are rightly annoyed that they have had no official response (or at least, not one that they are satisfied with) and are now casting around to see if anyone else can help out. As PSS's publisher, Just Flight seems a logical place to start.5) Just Flight are also a customer of PSS and some of the above customers are now looking to us to either supply the source files or supply the Just Flight versions of PSS software to them.The above sums up MY understanding of the situation. Now to our response:1) Although we have been a publisher of PSS's products for many years we have no official connection with them. It is worth noting that, as far as I am aware, PSS are not a company. They are simply a group of developers who trade under that name. 2) Following on from the above, we have no access to their source files (only to finished product) and all the PSS-developed products that we sell use a Just Flight installer and a Just Flight-edited manual. In all cases Just Flight versions include all the liveries that were available at the time of publication - i.e. we never offered liveries as a separate (chargeable) item.3) Likewise, we have no access to PSS's customer lists and it is not something we would be interested in acquiring unless a proper legal agreement was in place - otherwise Just Flight (who ARE part of a limited company) would be in a very complicated position with regard to data protection. You can't simply pass someone's address and credit card details to another company - even if it is to facilitate them re-downloading a file they have previously purchased.4) From what I can gather (and correct me if I am wrong) the lack of PSS server should currently only affect customers who need to re-install their software? Up to now I have seen vague allusions to 'lots of people' and 'many people' in the Just Flight forum but I am not sure that anyone knows how many flight simulation enthusiasts are actually affected. 5) Just Flight is keen to help out if we can, but offers to distribute PSS files on CD or post them up on websites are a bit inflamatory. Primarily, it is piracy. They aren't your files to give away. But, more importantly, without any idea of how many people are actually affected it seems a bit of sledgehammer approach. For all those who have spent their hard-earned cash on these products (and I include Just Flight in that group) it seems a little unfair for someone to make them freely available to those who have not paid for them.So - what does all the above waffle actually mean? Well, not a lot at the moment if you are looking to re-download the files for an A340 you bought last year. However, Just Flight will do whatever we can to help out but we can't simply make our products freely available (or even cheaply available) to the entire community. We are in contact with PSS (via lawyers) but I'm afraid that for legal reasons (and I really do mean that) we can't say exactly where these discussions are heading. The bottom line is that temporarily PSS cannot trade. However, what I can tell you is that this is not a situation that they chose to be in and they have not "gone bankrupt", or "into liquidation" or run off to Rio. Whatever the outcome of our discussions, the plan is for PSS to support their customers. If Just Flight can play a part in that then we will be more than happy to step up to the crease. However, in the meantime, please don't give us a hard time - we are in the same boat as everyone else. And, if anyone can think of a way of ascertaining how many people are actually affected, then please feel free to contact me via the Just Flight forum at http://forum.justflight.com/forum/ - my contact name is Derek.Dermot StapletonOperations DirectorJust Flight

[norman s 15]

Dermot,Your forthright statement should draw a line under the situation for the next few months.I would like to suggest that any other threads re PSS/Just Flight are closed and that the community gets back to Flying.Norman Bowman

[Guest vrandar]

Dermot, thank you for posting that, it is most helpful. I will now lock this thread as Norman has suggested.Rob ElliottPSS Support andAirbus Training Captain British Airways Virtual