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Donmo

I disagree with the denial of Commercial Posts...

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Seems a bit unfair that talented developers such as Rob can barely break even on some models. Yet a leech like Ferdy @ FSPlanet can boast about making $5000 a month effectively "selling" Rob's product.I know advertisments may be better on the main page, but to be honest my PC(s) have shortcuts direct to the forums - and I am sure that I am not the only one. I am much more likely to catch up there than on the main page !!!

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Guest

Anyone would think you have been having a busy week ????? :-boom

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Now he wants me dead as well..... :-roll I've been in the middle of all this for 14 hours now.... I am going to bed ... breathing... if you don't mind too much ...LOLI'll pick up the pieces again tomorrow morning no doubt ;-)But you're right, some very good ideas have been offered here and elsewhere and I think we have enough to come up with a good solution. :-jumpy :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________


Francois A. 'Navman' Dumas

 

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EuropeRides

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When readers start moderating their own posts now, then what is left for our moderators to do ???? :-lol :-lol :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________


Francois A. 'Navman' Dumas

 

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EuropeRides

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I agree with Peter 100%.Sometimes people simply want a progress report on an ongoing project.The product may be weeks or months away This certainly is not the sort of thing suitable to be announced on the front page as news or put behind an advertising banner.It does however let users see a glimse of an upcoming product via a few screen shots and some small descriptions.This IMO should not be be treated as Commercial promotion or advertising subject to these restrictions.Regards.Ernie.


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Guest Matt Johnson

You could say that. First Ferdy's shenanigans coming to light, then Carmine spamming the proverbial out of everyone, a minor technical glitch with the main webserver, and now the renewed discussion about this... all in four days? And AVSIM is not my 9-5 "job" either... man, I've been wishing for 48-hour days the past few...--M

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Guest Milio_B

Ok, this is my humble opinion about all this.I do not like payware. I never did. I feel like paying for a prodcut when we already payed for the FS and the hardware is just wrong.However, when I see a payware product I really like, I buy itBut when a product is advertised, and you see previews and then you're told it's going to be payware...I must admit I don't like that feeling at all.So, my opinion is in fact that we should encourage freeware add-ons, and freeware developpement of planes and scenery, because the tools used to build are free (and if you bought them, well, your choice), and the time spent on the project was your personal choice too.This said, payware developpers should be able to advertise as long as they're paying for it. Advertising isn't free in life in general, why would it be on this hobby?That's my honest opinion. I don't want any payware developpers to feel bad about what I said, I'm not judging them but I'm saying I don't support what they're doing (and I know this is gonna come back in bite me in the ... but I do buy some payware products I really like).

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Hi all,Just thought I would toss in my proverbial nickel here.Folks, I agree that Commercial announcements, advertising, screenshots, etc should not be allowed, but I have soloutions.This is not Avsim's fault at all. It is the Commercial developers fault. How is that you ask. Well, all they have to do is think outside the box. That is how a successful campaign works.Example:Steve from FSD announces upcoming release, good, bad, or otherwise. Well, I think with a little more thought, he could have hit a home run.Avsim accepts press releases... Helloooo, that my friends is free advertising. Go learn how to properly write a press release, and send it to avsim. That is how one gets a spot on the front page as an upcoming release.I do not think beta-testers should be allowed to post freebie development screen shots in the forums. We don't know if they are getting the release version for free or not, and that is a conflict of interest.To me, commercial is commercial, is commercial, any size, any sim. That may seem harsh but that is reality.The developersa can also link their own sig and be creative when helping others in the forums. How about a sig linking to their site. Pretty simple advertising, I would say.If they don't have the money to advertise, then I am sorry, but they will just have to wait for the release and for satisfied customers to post screenies. I posted quite a few of FSD's Commander because I was a satisfied customer.To Recap:1) Send them a formal press release prior to release, and upon release.2) Place a link in your sigs when you participate in the forums.3) Pay for advertising your releases here. I don't know how much Avsim charges, but do the math. How many would you have to sell to break even or make money on the ad. As for freeware, post all you want. So, if FSD has an upcoming freeware release, post a ton of T-38 Talon pics, and include a link to your upcoming releases page where the Talon and the Porter are.I don't know why this stuff is logical to me, and not others, but if you are a Commercial developer, it's still the freeware that will get you the accolades until your commercial product is released. Then it is either word of mouth, screenshots, or paid advertising that sells, not the "please explain the rules to me posts". IMHO :-)Best of Luck,Joe :-wave(who is loking forward to the upcoming release of FSD's T-38 Talon) See their upcoming releases page here to learn more about this upcoming FREEWARE RELEASE:Click here and choose T-38 Talon in the dropdown box.http://www.fsd-international.com/projects/...ng_releases.htm(Note to commercial developers: Always have a mutual freeware release close to a commercial release, and think outside the box...Sheesshhh... I should charge for this kind of advice....But then I would have to pay for ad space, huh.. :-lol :-lol :-lol.Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 1) 78 Pics in Frames with 1mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection Recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics1/FrameSet.htm.Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 2) 106 Pics in Frames with 1.5mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics2/FrameSet.htm.Picture Gallery of My Flight in a 1945 SNJ-6 on June 1st, 2002Joliet, Illinoishttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/FrameSet.htm.http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif


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That's how it should be in my opinion, Francois. ANY commercial outfit(an outfit charging ANY $$ for a product) should not be able to use the forums for free advertising. It's a free lunch. It doesn't matter if they make a single dollar or a million off their venture. To me, there is no such thing as "a little commercial". Either you are commercial or you're freeware. It's like being "a little bit pregnant". No such animal. Don

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Guest Tim13

Peter,Don't most payware developers have websites with preview pics posted on them? I guess that to me it's very black and white. I don't see a difference between a picture of a beta payware aircraft and a final version payware aircraft. To me, they are one and the same. If someone is interested in an upcoming release, then the developer should shoulder the cost of the internet bandwidth by putting the pics on his server/site instead of Avsim.JMVHOTim13

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>But be honest... the front page post beats a forum message >now doesn't it ?? :-lol >No!!................. I probably read the front page about once a week if lucky. However, I catch just about everything interesting in the forums. In fact, about the only time I do read the front page is if something from a forum post directed me there. Sorry (at least a wee bit) if I don't catch all the front page advertisements & so forth!L.Adamson

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Guest

Tim,I dont see any difference to our hobby by suggesting freeware authors stick their own aircraft development on their own sites away from Avsim.Before everyone becomes outraged at this statement I have said this because the effect would be to fragment the nucleus of the hobby and isolate Avsim into becoming a freeware centre.Take Joe Bloggs freeware developer, he creates great freeware aircraft posts his findings, screenshots, gets feedback, gives advice to less taleneted people but most of all brings everyone into one big family himself included.Now if no one has noticed the majority of great freeware developers move on and become commercial so overnight the same Joe Bloggs charges for his work.What you are saying is that he should now get out and fragment away from Avsim.Its a bit like the old socialist ideas in the Uk when they decided to tax top medical consultants, business leaders etc to the hilt.The effect was that those people took their talents away, the business leaders didnt create the jobs and the loser was Mr amd Mrs Public.As our sims become more and more complex, people are becoming more demanding and freeware as we know it is slowly dying.A few years ago I downloaded any aircraft which took my attention as they were all much of a muchness.Now I am getting very selective wanting superb flight dynamics, superb graphics, superb systems,superb VCS sounds etc in one package.Most of the authors capable of that have gone commercial. Yes there are a few freeware(mostly groups)who have the skills and time to turn out great stuff but there has been a change in the balance between commercial and freeware.Ok be a purist rather than a realist and stick to rigid principals but remember there have been many stupid and needless wars fought over principals.We have to blend the two for the sake of our hobby as a whole and I feel the solution which I believe Tom is arriving at will be the best for the modern face of flight simming.Peter

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Other than the tussle regarding commercial postings in these forums, I have learned one important thing today.To wit..There are far too many of you ignoring the front page. Especially that Larry dude. Therefore, we are going to turn out Java Dogs From Hell and our Cookies from Slobovia loose on our system and create a pathway by which even the most recalcitrant front page avoider is successfully swayed to see otherwise.See otherwise? Excuse the pun.. Right, the java system will plant a cookie on your PC which determines how long it has been since you have read the front page in terms of the ratio of message read here, and visits to the front page. If you are strictly a forum denizen, then the system will send you, once ever message read, to the front page. If you are a semi-denizen, then it will send you to the front page every three messages you read. If you visit the front page at least three times a day, it will allow you to gorge yourself on messages in the forums to your heart's content.LARRY.. WE ARE COMING AFTER YOU!!! :-lol

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