How Long in the Hold.

[Guest cypilots]

During a flight from EGKK to EGPF, I was instructed to descend to 100 through 240-180. On reaching 100 I was placed in a holding pattern which completed three segments- then seemed to forget about me other than to remind me of the QH. I abandoned the flight after 30 minutes in the hold and being 64 miles north of EGPF and not had a vector instruction for some 15 minutes. Any ideas how this has occurred please. Just to be sure I flew the same route a second time and had the same result.

[jd 57]

sounds like you aren't getting credit for the holding pattern circuits.are you flying 20 mile legs? did you start the holding pattern 40 miles from the arrival airport?next time, instead of asking for holding pattern, choose delay vectors. let the controller drive you around the pattern a couple of times.let me know how it goes?jd

[Guest cypilots]

JD. Just flown it again- with the copilot in command. Received vectors 065- 155- 245- 335- then nothing. Closed it down 55 miles north of EGPF after 29 minutes in the hold. It did start 40 miles from EGPF and it was 20 mile legs.

[jd 57]

probably should have waited until 60 miles from egpf.the vectors/hold start 40 miles from the airport. a outbound 20 mile leg is going to put you about 60 miles away from the airportjd

[ronzie 21]

It would be nice to get a hold credit acknowledgement option similar to the "ding" on a waypoint credit. Perhaps a visual count in the adv window would be nice so we "trainees" know when we have the procedure down correctly.

[jd 57]

i;m not sure i would know when to "ding" you. for the trainees, use delay vectors. that will get you used to the "pattern"jd

[t_a_h 0]

Hi DJ,just coming in sideways...I never get ANY Holds, whatsoever. I have set the HOLD option to 100% but never get any HOLDs.Why?

[jd 57]

is your last checkpoint a vor?

[t_a_h 0]

It is mostly a VOR befor the arrival airport.The last 20 trips were with 100% HOLDs set and mostly the last waypoint was a VOR. But not always 40nm befor airport. Sometimes 120nm or 80nm or alike. And I fly every time NOTAM Destination to be able to fly STARs. Does it matter how close the last VOR waypoint is and if the dest is NOTAM or not?

[jd 57]

yes, you should always have the last checkpoint as close to the arrival airport, preferably a vor. turn off notam destination. why do you have that set?jd

[t_a_h 0]

RC always tells me at which altitude I shall fly in approach to an airport. But the STAR tells me other info of flightlevel etc. and it is easier to fly a STAR than what RC tells me. RC doesnt know my plane, and so sometimes I cannot get down fast enough when RC tells me too late to descent fast. So I like more to fly NOTAM and telling RC to fly an ILS runway myself IAP.I cannot tell FSBuild to add a VOR 2nm befor the airport. And I am too lazy to edit the plan in FSNAV befor I export it everywhere.So, is it that I have never a VOR last waypoint very close to the airport?Why? RC knows my flightplan and ever where exactly I am. Even when the last waypoint is not close enough, there are fixes and other beacons around and not always is a holding vector circle around VORs, is it?I hope the next RC is more flexible about that...

[jd 57]

if you have set the correct aircraft type on the options page, none of the descent clearances are unreasonable. a star ends at the handover to approach. the approach controller tells you what altitude to fly, not a piece of paper. you don't need arrival notams on. even 3000fpm is not an unreasonable descent rate. passengers only get uncomfortable when the change in descent of rate is marked.i'm not familiar with fsbuild, but there is no way to edit a flight plan? surely you can insert the ATL vor into a flight plan into KATL.a fix, a beacon, a ndb does not trasmit distance information. that is the DME part of a VOR. if the controller tells you to fly a holding pattern, with 20 mile legs, how will you know when the 20 mile outbound leg is ready to be turned inbound? a holding pattern is a radial and a distance from a vor. and ndb isn't going to tell you radial and distance information. a fix sure isn't either. and not all planes have gps. so the lowest common denominator is a vor/dme as the last checkpoint in the plan.of course i could always say hold as published, but 95% of the users aren't going to have a plate with the correct information.the next version of rc is going to be more flexible, but when it comes to holding, i do it by the book. and the book was read to me by real life controllers and pilots, and those two groups tested it extensively.if you want a hold, figure out how to put a vor near the arrival airport, turn off arrival notams, and crank up the holding slider. you'll get a hold. promise :-)jd

[t_a_h 0]

Well, I fly planes like B734 or B735/6/7/8 with about 90% pax and 35% cargo or more. So when descending with more than 2200ft/min. I have a problem slowing down the bird and have to use extremly the airbrakes. is that normal? All the way down to use airbrakes? With the PSS A319 is is even more extrem and with a CitationX which is very slippy it is even more extrem.I would have to load up the plan in FSNav and edit it befor flight. Than save and export it. But I cannot export that plan into PSS format or PMDG... So Here it gets tricky and I would have to import the plan and setup altitudes and speeds etc. myself for every waypoint.

[PeteP 2]

surely you can insert the ATL vor into a flight plan into KATLOf course you can, jd - and stop calling him Shirley. FSBuild is an incredibly flexible program and it's very simple to add a waypoint such as the ATL VOR that you mention - in fact, talk to it nicely and it'll even cook dinner for you!P.