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brucewtb

Strange AI Chatter

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Just curious as to why I have European Regional appaearing in the AI chatter at Melbourne Airport Australia seems very out of place? Have also had some other strange airlines out of Sydney eg Lan Chile I think they have flights to Australia but Air New Zealand is the carrier.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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are you saying those ai aircraft were not at those locations when you heard the chatter?i'll look at it, if you can duplicate the problemlaunch rcv4click debugload the .plnclick start rcduplicate the problemzip up the .log, and email it to me, with a description of the problem, iow, the ai that was out of placejd

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Thanks I will try that. I guess with Lan Chile the error may have been with Utimate Traffic in that if UT gets its traffic from published flights there may be some confusion where one airline's flights are in fact operated by another carrier which is common practise. But I think it is most unlikely that a European regional airline would operate any flights into Melbourne International on the other side of the world, but I will attempt to recreate the flight. I did have a look when I was taxying to the ramp and could only see the usual domestic and international taffic.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Bruce,Looking at the data RC uses, it seems one of your files may have become corrupted sightly. It turns out the entries for European Regional, Ram Express, and our REX (aaha!) fall very close to each other and somehow got misaligned.Go to your rcv4data folder, and delete the c4.csv file. Then start RC, and a new file will be downloaded for you. If it does not download automatically, you may have to click the 'Check For Updates' button.If there was a error in your c4.csv file which caused the wrong callsign to be called, it should be fixed now.Subs

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Thanks, if I had been flying out of my local regional airport YMER (Merimbula) and heard European Regional over the AI chatter as a REX Saab 340B taxied by I may have come close to figuring this out.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Did you have just AI chatter checked without prerecorded chatter? Since you use AI with UT flightplans this is all you should need.Just an addition to the other postings.You might also look at the Melbourne arrival schedule in UT to see if any Euro Regional aircraft appear. I don't recall how to do that since I have another AI schedule reporting tool to look at that but I recall there are UT functions for this.

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or run in debug, and send me the .log - that will tell me exactly why an ai is called what it is calledand what ai are presentjd

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Guys,I had my first try with RC-4 out of YMML. Two things. 1. The ATC voice was a painfully slow English accent and most unrealistic; and 2. The ATC recording of clearance delivery that was playing was of real ATC/pilot communications, the only problem was it was Brisbane (YBBN) clearance delivery, some 700 nm to the north.And a third point. I couldn't get the the program to say 'Qantas seven thirty seven', it kept on with 'Qantas seven three seven'.Neil B(Retired Australian ATC)

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1) if this is v4.01, make sure all the sliders are to the far left, not the right2) if you are listening to pre-recorded chatter, then this is entirely possible. that's why i don't use pre-recorded chatter. if you have pre-recorded chatter clicked, unclick it, and use just the ai chatter (be sure interact with ai is clicked)3) that sounds like the non-faa way of calling the aircraft numbers. if 7 37 proper in australia. you could try putting "7 37" without the quotes in the field on the options page. that may force rc to override the number pronunciation routine.jd

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or . . . :)With a fully downloaded FSUIPC (not just an interim version) registered or not in the folder it creates is a utility called AI Traffic Look. This fires up in a seperate window and can display ground and air AI in the monitored area. You would switch to it when you hear the suspect call. It shows the flight ID, departure, and destination points and other good info for troubleshooting. Since it might affect a performance hit when it queries every few seconds, use this for troubleshooting only.

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JD,As i understand it, the FAA have always used the 'Group Form' for air carrier callsigns. So United 756 is spoken as United seven fifty six'. This form of callsign ennunciation has been the norm in Australia now for about 7 or 8 years. In the RC manual it states that this can be implemented by putting a space between the numbers. So I would have put 7 56. Should I have put 7 5 6 ?Neil

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In the RC manual it states that this can be implemented by putting a space between the numbers.True, it does, Neil, but as far as I know, this only affects the way your call sign is spoken and not the way numbers are spoken generally by RC's controllers and pilots. This form of callsign ennunciation has been the norm in Australia now for about 7 or 8 years.Yes, we knew about the use of group form in Australia - the Australian AIP is available online - but because of the way RC4 works, it was not implemented. Just to make it clear, outside of the USA, Canada and a few adjacent territories which are known to use FAA procedures, RC does not simulate the procedures of any single country but uses a generic set based on ICAO Standards and Recommended Practices.If you're ex-ATC, you'll know that countries are free to file differences from ICAO SARPS and just about all of them do! So, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, it was impossible to include all these national and regional variations in this version of RC - the first one to really attempt to replicate non-US procedures - so some compromise was necessary. As with all compromises, it's not been possible to please all of the people all of the time but I think we've succeeded in providing a good general impression of what ATC is like outside the US. I can't speak for Doug or jd but I'd guess that future versions may well address individual country's procedures but not this one.Now, if group form really is the major "thing" for you, it is possible to change all the Australian FIRs to FAA instead of ICAO procedures but be aware that it's all or nothing - you'll get your group form numbers but everything else - procedures, phraseology etc. - will be American too. If you're happy with this, let me know and I'll explain the changes you'll need to make but don't forget, you'll lose things like the 10,000ft Australian Transition Altitude so think carefully before you do it.Pete

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Thanks for the tip. Back home now and able to test and yes no doubt about it RC is mistakenly calling the Australian Airline Regional Regional Express "Regional Europe" - see screenshot taken from the AI Traffic Look readout. Sounds very out of place, so how to fix?Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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i see "Regional E", and since i don't have a "regional E" in my table, i make a guesssometime ai makers leave out the spaces for their carrier namesso i look up "RegionalE" - and i find "Regional Europe" which would be a good guess, since the numbers at the end wipe out everything after the "E"does that make sense?so, "Regional E" make me think it should be "Regional Europe", so that is what i call it.is this an ai that you modified, with special names?what is the atc call sign for "regional express"? if it is "regional" and you know how to change the ai call sign, change it from "regional express" to "regional"then i'll call it regionali'm not sure that explanation makes any sense.you could also edit the c4.csv file with NOTEPADand remove the line:RegionalEurope,RegionalEurope,R

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