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brucewtb

RC & LDS 767

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I'm starting to find that using RC4 with the LDS 767 is a bit of a hassle at least during the descent and approach phases. The LDS 767 flies beautifully using LNAV and VNAV when left to its own devices without RC input. However if I attempt to follow RC directions during the desecent and approach phase it is near impossible to keep the airspeed below 250 knots and I am always being chided for being too fast when below 10000 ft. As a further consequence all my approaches are way to fast leading to some dramatic landings. Grateful for any suggestions from RC and LDS 767 fliers.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Bruce,There are many pilots who fly the LDS767 and use RC4 so hopefully they will jump in and help.I find the speedbrakes indispensible when I need to keep the speed below 250kts in my humble 737-900. It's why they're there of course and are used extensively in the real-world.Without knowing your level of experience in flying I assume you're seting the appropriate level of flaps as your speed decreases? As a last resort drop the gear and that will certainly slow you down. Gear is lowered around 10 miles out anyway so from that point you certainly shouldn't have a speed problem.Cheers,


Ray (Cheshire, England).
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Thats what it make it so fun... You have to use the LEGS page on the FMC extensively, prepare for speed/crossing restrictions early and execute instructions immediatly. then, always remeber to:230 Downwind210 Base190 Loc Intercept170 Gdslope InterceptSlow downAlso, don't be afraid to use the speedbrakes.I use RC4 and the LDS every day, and yes, that bird descends fast.. .very fast.

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In the real world ATC rules, not the FMC. There are can be vertical stacking, delay vectors, etc. ATC will try to accommodate to keep to some degree a constant descent profile but that is not always possible. At some point you will probably have to dump FMC nav (VNAV, LNAV, or both) control and rely on MCP heading, speed, and altitude commands. It is up to you to supply the thrust or drag required to meet vertical nav demands and speed restrictions which are well within the flight envelope of the aircraft. If you look at some STARS you will see these published restrictions on speed and altitude.This all being said you can elect to depart and arrive under NOTAMS which will allow you to deviate from commands and use RC ATC in an advisory capacity. For arrival when you contact approach you are given the option to fly a published procedure at which point you will be given the ILS merge altitude but left to navigate with your own technique. You will not be contacted again until established on final.Don't forget request for descent at pilot's discretion as well as while enroute to request higher or lower altitude in anticipation of joining the approach phase is available as well.


Ron Ginsberg
KMSP Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Puddles
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Guest mmcevilley

>I'm starting to find that using RC4 with the LDS 767 is a bit>of a hassle at least during the descent and approach phases. >The LDS 767 flies beautifully using LNAV and VNAV when left to>its own devices without RC input. However if I attempt to>follow RC directions during the desecent and approach phase it>is near impossible to keep the airspeed below 250 knots and I>am always being chided for being too fast when below 10000 ft.> As a further consequence all my approaches are way to fast>leading to some dramatic landings. Grateful for any>suggestions from RC and LDS 767 fliers.I fly the LDS767 about 90% of the time. I seldom need to deploy the speedbrakes to manage descent speed or rate. I typically use VNAV for the descent down to 11000/12000. In doing so, I fly with a cost index of between 60 and 70, which equates to a descent speed between 278 and 290 KIAS. I use FLCH below 11000/12000 or, handfly below 11000/12000. The use of FLCH below 10000 is from a tip given me by a 757 pilot friend of mine, and also from advice in Mike Rays text on flying the 767.The key is this: you must plan your descent and manage your speed througout the descent. I find that RC gives me initial descent prior to the calculated TOD. No problem, I either comply with that instruction or request a Pilots Discretion (PD) descent. HOever, on the PD< I always initiate the descent NLT 10 miles from the calcuated TOD. It allows for a smoother transition from cruise to descent and less "chasing the descent path".As for flying below 11000 - first off, there is no reason why you need to be flying at 250 knots during the descent and approach. I slow down to 230 when level at 11000 and, have found that at idle thrust and flaps zero (o) the 767 will descend at 1200 FPM while maintaining 230 KIAS. The key point about the 767 is you must bleed off the speed prior to initiating a "full descent". In other words, if you want to descent at 210 KIAS, dont try to slow to that speed while also trying to maintain a 1500 FPM descent.My advice would be to learn the speeds and rate of descent associated with primary coufigurations: Flaps 0, Fkaps 5.... Flaps 30, gear up, gear down, idle power, and varying power levels, etc. In doing so, you know exactly what the aircart will do, and you know exactly what you need to do to get the desired result. For example, I know that Flaps 30, gear down, 700 FPM descent for final approach requires ~55%N1. So, I set the power establish my target rate of descent, and THEN make adjustments. No need to "hunt around" trying to figure out what works. ATC is simply giving you instruction - you must know the aircraft well enough to determine the best way to comply.Hope this helps.-michael

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Thanks all for you tips very much appreciated. As I said no problems getting this bird into a perfect approach profile using Vnav and Lnav all the way doing the same thing while complying with ATC is another matter. But I will go away and try harder.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Guest Douglas Thompson

Ray - Bojote - Ron and Michael,You guys are sooo good :D!

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