AI lined up over me

[iainsmith 9]

jd, this is a problem that I thought had been solved in an earlier update. It happened twice in a row at London Heathrow. We were all queueing at the hold points on either side of runway 27L and being lined up in turn by RC. I was told to line up and did so. Then the heavy that was waiting on the opposite side came and lined up over me. Result - aircraft collision, back to the start!The second time I ran de-bug hoping it would happen again and it did. In fact, being ready for it I knew it was going to happen because a couple of seconds before RC told me to line up, the BA 747 opposite put it's lights on and looked ready to move. I lined up and sure enough - aircraft collision, back to the start!I have thought about why this might be happening and it occurs to me that I had loaded the flight plan into FS so the route would show on my GPS. Also, in order to get the progressive taxi line I requested clearance from FS ATC and taxi clearance just by calling up and reading the FS ATC window. However, when I got to the hold I wasn't monitoring FS ATC who may have given up on me and given a line-up to the 747. Is this the likely reason?I have the log if you would like me to send it to you.Iain Smith

[jd 57]

send it to jd@jdtllc.com

[ronzie 21]

Hello, Iain:Not sure if this applies to ground collision protection, but in options do you have Interact with AI checked? At least for aircraft in the air either departure, arrival, or enroute it insures RC knows about AI around you and allows some RC control of AI in the air.In general though, FS itself supposed to provide protection on ground operations of AI. RC does not control ground AI except when you are on final when it stops AI along the taxiways to your runway to prevent ground AI from pulling out onto the runway when you are on short approach.Also insure you have the FSUIPC 3.65 or later as there was a short bug in an earlier interim version where low altitude AI was not reported to RC perhaps including your situation.You can try these things while jd analyzes your log.

[jd 57]

actually, i found out today, 3.70 is the current versionjd

[iainsmith 9]

Thanks for your response Ron. Yes I have Interact With AI ticked and I'm using FSUIPC 3.65. I'm also using RCv4.2 build 3831.I'm sending the log to jd.Iain

[Guest CowlFlapsOpen]

Iain. If jd is able to figure out the problem would you share it here? I'm pessimistic that is it is just some quirk in your set up. Many of us find that RC has only crude interaction with AI -- on the ground and in the air. The fact that the problem has many faces -- AI taxi through you, take the rwy in front of you, overtake you and collide with you on approach, use the opposite end of the rwy you're on, etc. -- suggests that the issue is a deep seated one that will have to be addressed in the next update. About the only folks not affected are former Beta testers it seems. Apparently the problem doesn't occur in every context. I hope jd doesn't just try to address each of these complaints on a case-by-case basis looking for answers idiosyncratic to particular users (tho bless him for trying every time!) but insteads steps back and uses the diverse ways in which people are being affected as an opportunity to give how RC interacts with AI a fresh look. RC is the future of MS FS ATC, it appears from MS's decision to leave the default ATC largely untouched in FSX. I am and will continue to be a proud supporter of RC in to the FSX future and look foward to jd's innovations.

[ronzie 21]

Let's just talk about FS9 for a minute, RC not running. If I taxi into the path of an AI somewhat down the taxiway, it hold when it gets near me. Ground AI to your aircraft protection is not a function of RC but FS. This has been stated by other users and by the developers. It is on the wishlist for future upgrades but as has been stated it is not implemented at this time. This is something FS9 alone should be doing.I can not answer why you are having conficts. I have only been a beta tester for a very short time but I have used RC for a long time. I do not know what is different from my setup, but since the upgrade to version 4 and then 4.01, I have seen RC follow AI trends (FS9 only!!!) in choosing the correct runway as first priority as long as the correct startup order of applications is followed. FS is very sluggish to weather updates and yet looking into FS RC recognizes changes before FS AI and FS ATIS do. There appears to be quite a delay between the FS weather engine and FS AI engine (which controls ATIS).Before AS6 had the AI refresh feature, I toggled it on my own using an added feature in the registered FSUIPC. This caused FS AI to update (after a couple of minutes) to existing weather patterns. Only after FS has stabilized should RC be started so it reads stable startup conditions.Rather then be redundant I suggest those interested see comments in the Kamikaze thread you also participate in.The only difference between ordinary users of _released_ products and beta testers is that they are selected from experienced users to look at the next releases to offer suggestions (in addition to user input from current products as posted here) and give the new releases a trial run. Before being a beta tester I often provided solutions to problems many had using FS, RC, AS, and FMC aircraft based on my experience with the products concerned. If we beta testers are not experiencing difficulties it is because we have experience using the released products and determined the limitations and interactivity of each. There is nothing special or secret being installed that would affect released products giving us a special operational advantage that are not available via freeware or payware to any user.Last but not least, please note the delayed release of Microsoft SDKs to the general developers very late after the release of their new product, often months. The AI toolkit was one such late release. FSUIPC was created to work around the limitations of incomplete FS internals documentation and offered developers an inside application interface that benefits all, both users and developers.It is not easy to develop advanced products within the restraints of FS.

[iainsmith 9]

>Iain. If jd is able to figure out the problem would you>share it here? jd has looked at my log and was somewhat surprised at what had happened, twice at that time and again since. In the situation that I was in, jd freezes the AI so that this doesn't happen. He could see on the log that he had sent the "freeze" instruction but it had been ignored; the reason was not clear and jd was not sure what more he could do. That is all I know at present. :-) Iain

[Guest CowlFlapsOpen]

Thnals Iain. This sounds like the start of something important. I'll bet the same thing is happening on my setup. The program's freeze instructions are ignored. This certainly could explian why not all users are affected for some reason. With enough time, I'm sure jd will get to the bottom of this. Thanks for your helpful ideas too Ron. I appreciate the work you beta testers do. Cheers all.

[RogerPotie 0]

Ronzie,Some strange things do happen at EGLL.Yesterday I was like n

[ronzie 21]

I took a quick look at egll. Like Barcelona the FS scenery reported by AFCAD shows taxiways attached to the overrun area the overrun area. These are exit points only and departing AI will get stuck there. The AI disappearing is a function of FS9 to remove stalled aircraft. It runs at about five minutes. I'll get back with more details tonight.Time to leave for paid occupation :).

[RogerPotie 0]

Hmmmmm !I will check that.

[RogerPotie 0]

Ron,I checked the stock EGLL. That is the way it is designed by MS. And the departure from RW27R seems correct (where I experienced the problem). It is on the other side that the Taxi way is joins the RW9L and I had no problem today on that RWY.

[cshark172 20]

Something has changed recently in FSUIPC or RC 4.2 to cause AI problems. I have updated both and have been having similar AI problems. AI taxiing accross runway while on takeoff roll, AI taxiing onto the active when I am lined up, and most disturbing--AI flying into me mid-air! Good thing I have crash detection off. I did not notice any of this before upgrading both FSUIPC to 3.65 and RC to 4.2.Kylehttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpg

[ronzie 21]

I took a closer look and 27R looks OK. There is no open conflicting taxiway across from you when you hold at 27R. I did not see anything wrong in the AFCAD but I did find three disconnected parking gates with AFCAD's fault finder and one disconnected taxi link. The fault finder stated that could stall AI. This was not in the 27R area.Sometimes everything gets stuck at the runway side of a hold short node. I have corrected this as suggested by adding a blue node point between the hold short node and the runway very close to the hold short node on the existing taxiway.Try this to check this out for any taxiway problem or AI congestion:Do not start RC.Start FS and go to the overhead view. Set weather so 27R is preferred by AI if necessary - in other words the same environment you were in using RC. Watch the AI race to the runway in the infamous FS catch up rush.Do they take off or stall.Open in the FSUIPC folder Traffic Look and when the AI are stalled look at that grid to see AI activity. Is there a string of pearls on approach?If I'm repeating another reply and missed stuff I apologize.