Off Track

[neilbradley1 2]

I am still having trouble with this feature. One is flying basically a straight line track from A to B with a number of way points in between. RC says that the default airway width tolerance is +- 4 nm. Now for some reason the FMC plan doesn't have one of the RC plan waypoints and the aircraft is say .1 nm to the left of it. RC ATC comes up and tells you you are off the airway, make a 180 and go over the missed waypoint, then resume own navigation. At 450 kts at jet levels and 20 degrees of bank the turn radius will be over 7 nm. This will take the aircraft well outside the track tolerances and the possibility of meeting someone head on at the same level. Add to this the real world need to coordinate with adjacent sectors before issuing such a clearance, and one would understand why RW ATC's I believe would rarely do this but rather talk to the pilot, ascertain intentions and then clear him direct to the next waypoint.I accept that if there is a significant track change then something needs to be done. But for basically straight line tracks surely there should be a bigger tolerance before the baseball bat is applied.NeilYPAD

[jd 57]

i don't think i say anywhere that you can be +- 4 miles from the airway. that's not what i'm looking at. i'm looking at whether you are within the heading deviation of the track to the next checkpoint.you have to pass within 2 miles of a departure procedure waypoint and within 5 miles of an enroute checkpoint. that should be easily manageable flying by hand, much less an fmc4.2 fixes a problem where the checkpoints are hundreds of miles apart, i wasn't taken into account the great circle routing. that's fixed.if for some reason you miss by miles a checkpoint, you can ask for direct the next checkpoint. not the one you missed. that will be granted, and you can continue your flight.of course in real world, missing a checkpoint wouldn't result in doing a 180. but if you miss a few checkpoints, you probably won't be flying long in the real world either.so if you are having a problem, and you can duplicate the problem, fly it with debug (the information is pinned at the top of the forum). send me the log, and i'll look to see if there is anything wrong with rc, or whether you're really, truly missing checkpoints.just curious, are you flying at 2x, or 4x speeds? are you not acknowledging controller transmissions? both can possibly cause you to miss a checkpoint.jd

[neilbradley1 2]

JD,Flying on autopilot, 1X, acknowledging all transmissions. The aircraft is following the FMC track well within tolerances, so I am most surprised when I get a call.I will try and duplicate one for your examination.Neil

[ronzie 21]

>>Now for some reason the FMC plan doesn't have one of the RC plan waypoints<

[mbattison 0]

More often than not, I am also experiencing a missed waypoint, however it is the first waypoint (the departing airport) that is being missed.I have many years of FS flying prior to RC4, and after take-off, would eventually follow own navigation using GPS and NAV Auto-pilot settings.Now BOTH the GPS and RC4 are showing the 1st waypoint to as being over the airport I just left, which results in a very unrealistic return at altitude to the departure airport, then flying over it, making a sharp turn to the 2nd waypoint on route. This is happening on many occasions.Now I am not sure if this may indeed be a problem with the Flight Planner (I normally use FS2004 default F/P), especially as RC4 is showing the same waypoint information as the (default) GPS - but this NEVER happened before RC4 was used. I know it's possible with RC4 and GPS to miss the waypoint and proceed to the next one, but this is a cumbersome work around, and often difficult to avoid being told off about off course.

[jd 57]

why not remove the first checkpoint that is 0 miles from the airport?

[mbattison 0]

Yes indeed, that is another possibility - but again is a new "problem". RC4 in my opinion is a very good product, I am not complaining about the overall product. I have had it a couple of months now and it is making a huge difference to my flying. In fact, I went back for one flight to default ATC, just to compare it, how horrible it sounds compared to RC4. That annoying squeak when you try and talk over some one, even though someone is not even talking; unrealistic sounding commands and phrases. RC4 is not perfect, but its a vast improvement on default ATC; and with pointers hopefully next editions will get even better.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Hi,I'm curious why your first waypoint would be over the departure airport. If you use the FS9 planner you should select the departure airport and then select the best runway for winds. Then select the destination airport but don't include a runway. Choose High Altitude Airways and then press 'Find Route'. Save the plan and load it into RC4.When I do this for EGPH to LFPG the first waypoint is 27 miles away (TLA). It sounds as though your problems with RC4 are down to how you create your flightplans.Upload one so we can see how yours look.

[mbattison 0]

HiI use FS9 planner, and set departure airport and appropriate gate (I don't select runway, but follow ATC/RC4 commands to go to the current active runway). I then chose departure airport, IFR, and usually high altitude airways. If high alt airways are not found, I would chose VOR-VOR or last resort direct GPS. Flight plan is saved and flight started.Flight plan is loaded into RC4 (as pln file) (and Active Sky6).As requested, here is flight plan recently flown, it is showing a waypoint 0 as the departing airport.[flightplan]AppVersion=9.0.30612title=EGCC to EGPFdescription=EGCC, EGPFtype=IFRroutetype=3cruising_altitude=26000departure_id=EGCC, N53* 22.16', W2* 17.17', +000256.99departure_position=GATE C 219destination_id=EGPF, N55* 51.83', W4* 26.91', +000025.99departure_name=Manchesterdestination_name=Glasgowwaypoint.0=, EGCC, , EGCC, A, N53* 22.16', W2* 17.17', +000256.99, waypoint.1=EG, DCS, , DCS, V, N54* 43.32', W3* 20.43', +000000.00, waypoint.2=EG, FENIK, , FENIK, I, N55* 42.92', W4* 17.52', +000000.00, UA1waypoint.3=, EGPF, , EGPF, A, N55* 51.83', W4* 26.91', +000025.99,

[jd 57]

it's the first waypoint as far as fs9 is concerned. i read it in as the departure airportthe first checkpoint is dcs.check it out, once you start rc, and hop over to fs9. press ctrl-shift-p and look at what rc thinks your flight plan.also the first checkpoint rc is expecting you to fly, is displayed on the first line of the display. distance and heading as well.jd

[ronzie 21]

Here is a NAVLOG route portion from FSBuild as input manually from your posted route.EGCC DCS.UA1.FENIK EGPF/0033 M/H FL WIND ATCTO NM AWY M/C TAS G/S ZT ACTME ETA ATA ACBO ABO REM AREM N5411.3/W0254.2 336 CLB 310028 LONTOC 054 DCT 338 324 280 00/11 00/11 .../... 0022/... 0050/... N5443.3/W0320.4 337 260 325063 LONDCS 115.20 035 DCT 338 446 385 00/05 00/16 .../... 0026/... 0046/... N5446.0/W0322.5 334 260 326071 LONTOD 003 DCT 335 446 376 00/00 00/17 .../... 0026/... 0046/... N5542.9/W0417.5 334 DSC 326071 EGPXFENIK 064 DCT 335 322 277 00/14 00/31 .../... 0030/... 0043/... N5552.3/W0425.9 337 DSC 313036 EGPXEGPF 010 DCT 339 311 278 00/02 00/33 .../... 0030/... 0042/...Note the first waypoint is DCS at 89 nm from departure, then 67 nm to FENIK, then 10 to destination.Also your altitude at DCS from your FS9 printout was zero and should be at 26,000.RC does not follow the TOC and TOD top of climb and top of decent -- that's just vertical profile info for the samp;le 737NG-700 I had set up.So, as jd said, the first waypoint as you lift off should be DCS in your RC window.In addition, make sure you acknowledge (7) all ATC commands so your waypoint lines in the RC window will properly update, or hand over the communications to the copilot as indicated in the menu for auto-reply.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Hi,Select the runway instead of a gate number at EGCC and try again. I think the gate number is being included as your first waypoint.By the way, the route you supplied for EGCC-EGPF is highly unrealistic. You should be flying a SID out of Manchester - Pole Hill for the Glasgow run.Once you resolve the issue with the first waypoint I suggest you consider a more advanced flight planner. FS Build or FS Navigator are excellent commercial ones. The default planner is not exactly brilliant.Cheers,

[iainsmith 9]

>Here is a NAVLOG route portion from FSBuild as input manually>from your posted route.>>EGCC DCS.UA1.FENIK EGPF/0033>>> M/H FL WIND ATC>TO NM AWY M/C TAS G/S ZT ACTME ETA ATA ACBO>ABO REM AREM>> N5411.3/W0254.2 336 CLB 310028 LON>TOC 054 DCT 338 324 280 00/11 00/11 .../...>0022/... 0050/...>> N5443.3/W0320.4 337 260 325063 LON>DCS 115.20 035 DCT 338 446 385 00/05 00/16 .../...>0026/... 0046/...>> N5446.0/W0322.5 334 260 326071 LON>TOD 003 DCT 335 446 376 00/00 00/17 .../...>0026/... 0046/...>> N5542.9/W0417.5 334 DSC 326071 EGPX>FENIK 064 DCT 335 322 277 00/14 00/31 .../...>0030/... 0043/...>> N5552.3/W0425.9 337 DSC 313036 EGPX>EGPF 010 DCT 339 311 278 00/02 00/33 .../...>0030/... 0042/...>>Note the first waypoint is DCS at 89 nm from departure, then>67 nm to FENIK, then 10 to destination.>Ron, I hate things I can't understand and I may be a bit dim on this but you say "note the first waypoint is DCS at 89nm from departure.." I cannot see any clue there as to the distance from departure. So, please tell me how I would note it! :-( Iain Smith

[PeteP 2]

"By the way, the route you supplied for EGCC-EGPF is highly unrealistic."Yep, and years out of date too. A1/UA1 hasn't existed in the UK for over 2 years, more's the pity.x( Oh and btw, max permitted level for flights between MTMA airfields and ScTMA airfields is FL240.PP

[jd 57]

i think he used fs9 flight planner. :-) jd