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Ken Hall

Crotchety Controller

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Really getting into RC now.....have not had this much fun with my clothes on since reviewing Just Flight's Tiger Moth!!!Received many plaudits post flight and possibly putting "them" out of business. Until yesterday..............EGNM (Leeds) - LEVC (Valencia) - EGNM.Outward leg OK - prepared for the return and find pressure dropped quite a bit to 1007Mb. Raining quite heavily. Take-off - bit bumpy until well into France...........London Centre takes me over......."descend from FL360 to FL240 to FL150 to FL110 QNH 1027".Descended to FL110, set QNH to 1027 - handed to Leeds Approach."Descend to 9000ft QNH 1027".........arrive at 9000ft.Controller issues warning - "should be at 9000ft".........I am at 9000ft!Second warning - bit sterner - I check the Altimeter setting OK at 1027, Altimeter reading spot-on 9000ft. Third warning - stroppy! - I check again....I am AT 9000ft QNH is 1027 (I rotate the QNH numbers and the Altimeter reading changes up and down - I reset to 1027!).Fourth warning - this time threatening me with a loss of my livelyhood and a good seeing to at the ramp!!! I fly on - convinced he's just having a bad day - Christmas shopping stress maybe? He's certainly NOT that nice Mr Proudfoot!A few minutes later - "descend to 5000ft, turn heading 050", etc......Eventually landed at Leeds with no further problems........except that I was always above the glide slope when tracking the ILS. Eventually took it in by hand. I do not have a log of the flight for any HO/jd analysis just my recollection as above.I am using FS9.1 with XP; AMD64 3500+; nVidia 6600GT; 2Gb RAM; flight with POSKY B737-800 (panel by Steve Southey modified by me); Active Sky v6.5. CH-Products Yoke, Pedals, Throttle Quadrant. GoFlight MCP-Pro plus eight other GF modules.Question:Is it a good idea to make a Log for each flight for just this sort of situation?Does the Log file build incrementally (refers to 50Mb file size)or does each one erase the previous one?


Old enough to know better...
...young enough to do most of it again!

System: Chillblast (Matt Davies designed) Intel i5-6600 Sklylake CPU O/C to 4.4 GHz; Liquid Cooled; Asus Z170 PRO GAMING MoBo; MSI GeForce GTX 1660Ti 6Gb; 16Gb Corsair Crucial DDR4 RAM; SSD plus SSHD drives; Windows-10.
GF MCP-Pro and EFIS + 8 other GF Modules, CH Yoke/Pedals/TQ, Iiyama 19" x 2, 40" smart TV.

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Hi Ken,The cause of your problem is very straightforward - you had your altimeter incorrectly set to QNH (1027mB) when you should have been on standard setting (1013.2mB). Doing this meant that you were approximately 400ft lower than you thought you were!The Transition Altitude at Leeds is 4000ft (unless you've modified the m4.csv file) so you would not have been cleared to 9000ft but to FL90. As I mention above, with that QNH, there is a 400ft vertical difference between these two positions which is why the controller was getting grumpy with you. Radar Contact gives you a lot of help in deciding which pressure setting you should be using but, as 'Michelle of the Resistance' would say, you must listen very carefully. :-) In simple terms, you are operating at and below the Transition Altitude, you should have the QNH set. The controller will always precede vertical clearances which need QNH set with the word "altitude" for example, "descend to altitude 6000ft" or "climb to altitude 3000ft". Whenever you here the word altitude before a vertical clearance make sure you have QNH set.When you're operating above the Transition Altitude, the controller will give vertical clearances as Flight Levels and these require the standard setting of 1013.2mB to be on your altimeter to be flown correctly. As with altitudes, the controller always precedes a vertical clearance to a flight level with the words "flight level" for example, "climb flight level 90", "descend flight level 330". If you listen very carefully, you'll also notice that the preposition "to" is used only with altitudes and not flight levels.Your co-pilot also helps. When you pass the Transition Altitude climbing, he'll say "altimeter check". This is not an instruction to change your setting but a reminder to check that you've already set 1013.2mB. The same happens on descent - the co-pilot will say "altimeter check as you pass below the Transition Level as a reminder that you should now have the QNH set.As to your question about logging, it's probably a good idea to do that while you're at the early learning stage. I know you get a warning about reduced performance but I've never seen that happen and de-bug is forced "on" on every flight in beta test versions. Each time you re-start RC, the old log is overwritten, unless you give it a new name so, if you want to save a log for jd it's probably best if you save it with a meaningful name.Pete

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Gid moaning![Radar Contact gives you a lot of help in deciding which pressure setting you should be using but, as 'Michelle of the Resistance' would say, you must listen very carefully.]But I was only obeying orders!!![The Transition Altitude at Leeds is 4000ft (unless you've modified the m4.csv file) so you would not have been cleared to 9000ft but to FL90. As I mention above, with that QNH, there is a 400ft vertical difference between these two positions which is why the controller was getting grumpy with you.]I must have been carried away by my own "success" and the previous good reports! So what you are saying is that I must make note of the transition altitude and then and only then would I change the QNH regardless of when I was told what that QNH was/is?Maybe it's a good thing for me to be reminded that I still have a lot to learn.I shall, however, start creating a log for each time I use RC - which is EVERY time I use FS now.


Old enough to know better...
...young enough to do most of it again!

System: Chillblast (Matt Davies designed) Intel i5-6600 Sklylake CPU O/C to 4.4 GHz; Liquid Cooled; Asus Z170 PRO GAMING MoBo; MSI GeForce GTX 1660Ti 6Gb; 16Gb Corsair Crucial DDR4 RAM; SSD plus SSHD drives; Windows-10.
GF MCP-Pro and EFIS + 8 other GF Modules, CH Yoke/Pedals/TQ, Iiyama 19" x 2, 40" smart TV.

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"So what you are saying is that I must make note of the transition altitude."Well, it would certainly help to know the TA at the airfields you're operating to and from (RC will tell you what Transition Level it has calculated for them on start-up) but it's not essential in RC. The most important thing is to listen carefully to the clearances - the controller and your co-pilot tell you everything you need to know."...then and only then would I change the QNH regardless of when I was told what that QNH was/is?"The RC controller will normally only give you the QNH the first time you're cleared to an altitude from a flight level and then when there is a significant change in its value. Are you absolutely sure that the RC controller gave you the QNH when you were cleared to FL110 and FL90? If you're certain he did then perhaps you could try to reproduce this flight with de-bug on.Pete

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He he he, if you've been listening to Rick, JD and the like since RC v2, then you'd think they're all crotchety! They've chewd my arse more time than I care to remember....:-xxrotflmaoBut, I'll tell'ya what; I've learned so much about ATC and the ability to anticipate events before they even happen all becuase of these guys and the longevity of RC!Two cheers for RCMerry Christmas all....


Regards,
Al Jordan | KCAE

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there is a tutorial just for the european airports. this will helpalso, as soon as rc starts at a non-faa airport, the very first screen that appears on the fsuipc display, is the TL of departure and arrival airportand don't be fooled into thinking the "B" key will work. it won't stop using. reassign to something else :-)jd

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>there is a tutorial just for the european airports. this will>help>>also, as soon as rc starts at a non-faa airport, the very>first screen that appears on the fsuipc display, is the TL of>departure and arrival airport>>and don't be fooled into thinking the "B" key will work. it>won't stop using. reassign to something else :-)>>jdI must do that tutorial again - this time with Active Sky active.When I went through the tutorials I was just using the default weather so that pressure was always the default setting regardless. Since becoming confident and obsessed with RC I have now started using AS which obviously has thrown another variable into the melting pot!I don't use the "B" key - since building my cockpit I have become a dedicated flicker, pusher and twister of switches, buttons and knobs:-lol Thanks for your response.


Old enough to know better...
...young enough to do most of it again!

System: Chillblast (Matt Davies designed) Intel i5-6600 Sklylake CPU O/C to 4.4 GHz; Liquid Cooled; Asus Z170 PRO GAMING MoBo; MSI GeForce GTX 1660Ti 6Gb; 16Gb Corsair Crucial DDR4 RAM; SSD plus SSHD drives; Windows-10.
GF MCP-Pro and EFIS + 8 other GF Modules, CH Yoke/Pedals/TQ, Iiyama 19" x 2, 40" smart TV.

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>Are you absolutely sure that the RC controller gave you the QNH>when you were cleared to FL110 and FL90? If you're certain he>did then perhaps you could try to reproduce this flight with>de-bug on.>Pete>Absolutely positive!I scribbled it on my pad and from what I now know that was my BIG mistake. I set QNH immediately - because I was obeying instructions - and not at the TA which I now know to be correct procedure.When I did the tutorials I did NOT have Active Sky running so all pressures were default.Since becoming such a fan of RC and believing myself to be "fully" competent (oh! how are the mighty fallen:-hmmm) I am now running FS with AS active which throws in another variable.As my granny used to say "pride goeth before a fall".


Old enough to know better...
...young enough to do most of it again!

System: Chillblast (Matt Davies designed) Intel i5-6600 Sklylake CPU O/C to 4.4 GHz; Liquid Cooled; Asus Z170 PRO GAMING MoBo; MSI GeForce GTX 1660Ti 6Gb; 16Gb Corsair Crucial DDR4 RAM; SSD plus SSHD drives; Windows-10.
GF MCP-Pro and EFIS + 8 other GF Modules, CH Yoke/Pedals/TQ, Iiyama 19" x 2, 40" smart TV.

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>He he he, if you've been listening to Rick, JD and the like>since RC v2, then you'd think they're all crotchety! They've>chewd my arse more time than I care to remember....No, I'm a recent and completely new convert.>:-xxrotflmao>>But, I'll tell'ya what; I've learned so much about ATC and the>ability to anticipate events before they even happen all>becuase of these guys and the longevity of RC!I'm learning that, too>>Two cheers for RC>>>Merry Christmas all....I'll drink to that.:-beerchug


Old enough to know better...
...young enough to do most of it again!

System: Chillblast (Matt Davies designed) Intel i5-6600 Sklylake CPU O/C to 4.4 GHz; Liquid Cooled; Asus Z170 PRO GAMING MoBo; MSI GeForce GTX 1660Ti 6Gb; 16Gb Corsair Crucial DDR4 RAM; SSD plus SSHD drives; Windows-10.
GF MCP-Pro and EFIS + 8 other GF Modules, CH Yoke/Pedals/TQ, Iiyama 19" x 2, 40" smart TV.

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!Absolutely positive!"In that case would you please repeat this flight with the same weather (de-bug on) and send the log to jd.What's worrying me is that you also say that you were cleared to 9000ft which, with a TA of 4000ft at Leeds is a major error. To be honest, I have my doubts but if your recollection of this and being given the QNH at a flight level are correct, then you've discovered the first bug in the altimetry system that's come to light in the 2 years since RC4's release and it needs to be put right.Only the log will clear this up so I really would be grateful if you could repeat the flight under identical conditions to get one.ThanksPetehttp://www.jdtllc.com/images/rcv4bannerbeta.jpg

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Hi Ken and Peter,Last evening I flew LIML to EDDF .On descending towards the runway at EDDF the initial clearance after hand off to approach was descend flight level 8000 fly heading 350 QNH 1030.Whilst I was not descending to transition level I have always taken this first indication of QNH as a warning/advisory for the pilot.My next clearance was to descend to altitude 5000ft QNH 1030 which caused me to reset baro to 1030.This is is a regular occurance in European skies.Norman


Norman Bowman

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Peter,I wil refly this flight or another European flight over the next couple of days and do a log for jd.I will post when I have completed this taskNorman


Norman Bowman

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Hi Pete and jdManaged to send email and file.Will jd confirm receipt of same pleaseNorman


Norman Bowman

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