ISD Scenery and RC4

[Guest Michael]

hello, I seem to have problem with atc recognizing certain runways in RC4. In a related thread, I checked JD's LIRF entries in his R4 file and mine were the same. It is a strange issue and only affect runway 34R in isd's rome scenery- I get as far as the holding point and am told to line up and wait. Once lining up on the runway, I can wait forever but iget no take off clearance (this doesn't happen on Runway 34L). When I take off, once in the air atc continues as if i had been given clearancewhere I should be getting grief for not waiting. Aftre that the flight is perfect, until I reach LIMC (Malpensa). If the active runway is 35L, then there is no problem with the approach vectors; If the active runway is 17R, then I get vectored 10 miles west of the intercept course. I've re- built my database twice but these two annoying problems still haunt this particular flight. For comparison, here are the entries in the R4 file:LIRF,0070,41.799488,12.232685,14,69.220,10842,0,148,0.500,41.804489,12.250813,1365LIRF,0161,41.845619,12.261653,14,162.210,12823,108.10,197,0.500,41.829277,12.268475,0LIRF,0162,41.815060,12.226542,14,162.140,12813,110.30,197,0.500,41.798748,12.233383,0LIRF,0163,41.842270,12.259793,14,162.150,11815,108.50,148,0.500,41.827229,12.266068,1969LIRF,0250,41.809464,12.268909,14,249.220,10842,109.70,148,0.500,41.804489,12.250813,0LIRF,0341,41.782433,12.240224,14,342.140,12813,108.90,197,0.500,41.798748,12.233383,1053LIRF,0342,41.812954,12.275297,14,342.210,12823,109.30,197,0.500,41.829277,12.268475,0LIRF,0343,41.812252,12.272379,14,342.150,11815,108.50,148,0.500,41.827229,12.266068,0LIMC,0171,45.650486,8.727834,767,169.300,12800,109.90BG,328,-0.300,45.633255,8.732624,0,CT,CLLIMC,0172,45.645950,8.718946,767,169.300,12800,0,328,-0.300,45.628719,8.723737,0,CT,CLLIMC,0351,45.611488,8.728527,767,349.300,12800,109.10BDG,328,-0.300,45.628719,8.723737,1328,,LIMC,0352,45.616024,8.737414,767,349.300,12800,109.10BDG,328,-0.300,45.633255,8.732624,0,,Other than this 'glitch', you guys have outdone yourselves with this software! Thanx, Michael

[jd 57]

make sure you have makerwys 4.28 in the fs root directory, and rebuild the rc scenery databasejd

[Guest Michael]

Thank-you. Yes, I do have it in my fs root directory, but it is v4.27 I can't find a v4.28. Where is it available?

[jd 57]

pinned at the top of the forumhttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=20543&page=

[Guest Michael]

Thanx, the version I can download is still 4.27- so I'll re download and install it into the root of fs9 and try again.Cheers!

[ronzie 21]

Re: LIRF16C/34C is a backup runway to 16L/34R and should show as closed for both take-off and landing. This does not show in your data. I'll have to see when I get home what my version shows and what version of LIRF I have installed. In the meantime I suggest you use AFCAD and close 16C/34C at both ends for take-off and landing. In the scenery I have it shows as a closed runway but with taxi-way lines drawn on it. If it is not closed in AFCAD AI may be trying to use it and confusing things. This would put AI too close to 16L/34R and might confuse RC. Make the change and rebuild your scenery database.Re: LIMCYour data shows at LIMC that both 17s are closed in your AFCAD. For FS AI this does nothing as closures must be the same at both ends to be effective in FS so if RC sees AI landing on the 17s, it will use it. Again, not being at home, I'd have to check. As I recall, the approach plates show procedure turns must be used in one direction due to terrain. Your data shows high terrain is probably north of the 17s. With the high MSA north of the airport that could disrupt RC's vectoring to 17. In this case choose an IAP for 17 and follow the approach charts using a PT for landing on the 17s which do not lend themselves to vectored approaches. I do not think straight-in approaches are allowed to the 17s.

[Guest Michael]

Now, that is interesting- I was wondering why I was vectored to 17R when I could see aircraft taking off from 35L? Also, your right about the terrain; I have some older approach plates that came as part of Italy 2000 scenery from Lago- old, but still a good reference. As for LIRF, I re-built my database and RC is now using runway 070- which is fine for an MD80, but might be a little small for a 767:).Cheers!

[ronzie 21]

I checked the two airports I have and their data.LIMC agrees with your data.LIRF has dates of 2005 and the AFCAD does not contain 16C/34C but just a taxiway. They could have overlayed the taxiway on a scenic element that looks like a runway to get the same effect. Therefore in this version RC does not have 16C/34C data nor is there a runway for AI to use. Obviously this was changed in the 2007 version. Use AFCAD to open the layer that shows the AF2 file for LIRF. You will probably see the default layer plus two others. Find the layer with the file property name of AF2_LIRF. When you have the correct layer open, do lists, runways and see if 16C/34C is in it. There may be some short pseudo runways for another purpose having to trick FS into having a cross runway active along with the two parallels. Disregard those. If 16C/34C is not in the list, then this AF2 file needs to be put in a high priority scenery folder. To do this, create a folder (not in FS) on your FS disk partition called AFCAD2S. Create a folder called scenery under that. It should look like C:AFCAD2Sscenery using the disk partition where FS resides. Move (not copy) the AF2_LIRF.bgl file into that scenery folder. Start FS, setting, scenery library. Click ADD, then browse to you AFCAD2S folder, then click OK. It will be in the top #1 position. Shut down FS and restart it so it reindexes the scenery. Shut down FS, start RC, and run the scenery rebuild. Any afcad file you place in that top priority AFCAD2S/scenery/ folder will now be at the highest priority for FS and RC. Again if 16C/34C is in there make sure it is closed for take-off and landing at each end. If you do this rerun the RC database utility again.I'll have to get the 2007 version and check.

[ronzie 21]

I found the updated AF2 on AVSIM (ISD LIRF 2005 - updated gate designators) in this collection. I'll install it and test it. The date is 10JAN07.With this new design make sure you are lined up on 16L or 34R, not 16C or 34C. Lining up on the wrong runway, easily mistaken here, might cause the symptoms you describe in not getting take-off clearance. You must be on the correct heading and within a certain distance of the center line to get take-off clearance otherwise RC still thinks you are positioning.

[Guest Michael]

Thanks; I opened the AF2_rome.bgl(actualy, there are 2, but one is for static aircraft only) and as you suggested, runway 34C is missing- however, the width of runway 34R is 480ft.- this is not refected in the r4 data file in RC. Interestingly, when using 34R RC is able to interact and clear AI traffic for take off, but ignores my aircraft after I contact tower or after tower tells me to line up and wait- all this is on Runway 34R- 34C is as you remarked a subsidiary runway and not lit at night.Cheers!

[Guest Michael]

I downloaded the new afcad file, but I am confused: 1)the file that afcad2 opens is the statics.bgl, which is fine, because the runway information is the same and 2) runways 34R-L are unusually wide.And 3)just like the older afcad, if I click on runway properties in the lists catagory, it states that there are no lights or ils associated with runway 34R. Not being overly familiar with the nuances of Afcad, I'm not sure why a scenery designer would do that?Cheers!

[ronzie 21]

Only one of the two AF2 files, LIRF_Full OR LIRF_Statics should be in your scenery folder, not both. In other words, only one of the two should be installed.In general practice, a static afcad does not put gates where static aircraft are placed so there is no FS interaction with those spaces. If you want to use active AI in those spots, then install just the full version.You can get 07-2007 charts from here courtesy of VATSIM ITALY:http://www.vatita.net/?dir=download&pagina=planning/chartsThere should be an ILS on 34R.Either way, make sure your chosen AF2_ file is in a created top priority folder as I previously described.As far as wide runways they might be using them as a visual scenic element to suppress default textures filling in around the runways. I have heard of this before but it might cause other problems.Your posted data shows a localizer on all runways except 7.It will be later this week when I can actually check things.

[ronzie 21]

I got the lirf stands 2007 installed choosing AF2_LIRF_full.bgl for the install.After letting FS reindex the scenery I closed it and ran RC4 Scenery Rebuild Database using version 4.28 of makerwys.exe.The resulting r4.csv data does not show 16C and 34C. ILS are shown on all runways except 25. Runways 7 and 25 are closed for landing (both ends) so AI should not be landing on those. Runway 25 shows it is not closed for take-off so AI might depart it 7 and 25 since both ends are not closed for take-off.It is interesting to note that in the navaid list in afcad it also shows ILSs for 16C/34C even though in this afcad those runways are not in the runway list. This is because it is not possible using afcad to delete navaids in the stock scenery. I would think this should not affect FS AI.Regarding your comment on lighting, 16L/34R only shows edge lights. Perhaps it is not used at night real world. They may be there in FS if added in other layers.I'll not get a chance to test it until this weekend.Makerwys 4.27 is the version released to the public. I have to use the 4.28 beta but your data should be the same.

[Guest Michael]

I've installed the afcad as per your instructions and updated the datatbase. I tried a flight, and as luck would have it, 34R was the active runway. Everything was working fine. I was told to monitor the tower- which I did- and everything was great. All the ai trafic was being handled for take off, until I got closer: 1) the aicraft that was told to line up and wait took off without clearance 2) the next air craft ahead of me was told to line up and wait but then stopped at the edge of the runway 3)I was told to line up and wait before the other aircraft had taken off?! So I manoeuverd around him and lined up on the runway. Again I waited at length, but recieved no clearance, so I took off anyway. Once in the air, I received this:"I say again , fly heading 315". That heading was correct, but I never received this message before. It is as if, there is a communications 'black hole'where Rc is giving directions, but for some reason anything past the holding point isn't receiving. Again, once in the air, everything is fine.Cheers!

[jd 57]

follow the steps pinned at the top of the forum, and create a .log and send it to mebe sure to click the debug button before loading the .plnjd