FlightSimExpo ANNOUNCES JUNE 2018 ARRIVAL IN LAS VEGAS

Who's doing the one in Dallas?!?  I just bought plane tickets for the FlightsimCon in Dallas.  Boston ARTCC used to run that one.  What's going on here??

Bill Alderson

Boston Virtual ARTCC is behind the FlightSimExpo event in Las Vegas; it no longer has an affiliation with FlightSimCon.

You're right that many of the FlightSimExpo team members were involved with FlightSimCon in the past. In that role, we worked closely with the flight simulation community. It was clear that flight simulation developers from around the world, led by FlightSimExpo top sponsor Orbx, were extremely interested in a conference in Las Vegas. A lot of attendees were looking for a change in scenery as well. As a result, the team from Boston Virtual ARTCC worked with the flight simulation community to develop and launch FlightSimExpo.

FlightSimExpo is a brand new, community-driven simulation conference developed by the team at Boston Virtual ARTCC. As discussed in the press release, the event will be held the weekend of June 9-10, 2018 at Flamingo Las Vegas Resort.

Question is, will Flightsimcon still happen? It is scheduled for the 23rd/24th of June in Dallas...two sim shows in two weeks in the USA. Hmmmm...     

I'll be there for sure, too close to not make it and work load should be reduced by then.  Highly recommend staying in the Palazzo with Prestige option (well worth it).

Cheers, Rob.

Is there some kind of a power struggle going on?  Who's putting on the Dallas event?  I've been to both web sites and I'm getting that sinking feeling that someone is trying hi--jack something and that we're just pawns. I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling here.  Might be a good idea to come clean about what exactly is going on because I have better things to do with my time and money and may decide not to go to either event.

Bill Alderson

1 hour ago, WarpD said:

I will have a hard time justifying the significant cost increase to attend.

Are you referring to travel costs? $50 is the lowest I've seen a registration number in several years for U.S.-based conferences, and we'd like to keep registration reasonable even as the price goes up closer to the event.

21 hours ago, Bill Alderson said:

Is there some kind of a power struggle going on?

I doubt it, probably just a matter of servicing West coast and East coast ... test the waters on the west coast to see turn-out.  Vegas is well equipped at hosting Expo type of events with considerable after event hours activity beyond that of flight simulation.

I'm hoping they organize helicopter riders over Hoover Dam, there is a surprising amount of other activity that goes on in Vegas beyond the shows, dance clubs, gambling ... not to mention the airport is view-able from just about any hotel.

Cheers, Rob.

1 hour ago, Bill Alderson said:

Is there some kind of a power struggle going on?  Who's putting on the Dallas event?  I've been to both web sites and I'm getting that sinking feeling that someone is trying hi--jack something and that we're just pawns. I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling here.  Might be a good idea to come clean about what exactly is going on because I have better things to do with my time and money and may decide not to go to either event.

Bill Alderson

Thanks for the comments Bill. Here's the answer: we asked the flight simulation developers what they wanted. There was resounding interest and support for Las Vegas. So, the team behind FSExpo tried (in many ways) to communicate that to the event management company that runs FlightSimCon, but interests weren't aligned. In order to match the wishes of developers and the community, we needed to start our own event.

To my knowledge, FlightSimCon hasn't published information about which, if any, developers are on board for that event. But, you can see the folks who are behind FSExpo on our website: Orbx, Aerosoft, Boston Virtual ARTCC, FlyTampa, FSFX Packages, FSElite, GoFlight, HiFi Simulations, iBlueYonder, Infinite-Flight, Javiator, Jetline Systems, Just Flight, Mindstar Aviation, PilotEdge, PILOT'S, Prepar3D, POSCON, Quality Wings, TFDi Design, VATSIM and VATUSA, VATSTAR, and X-Plane. Of course, there's actually several more that are waiting in the wings for when we officially open up registrations.

The fact is FSExpo is run 100% by folks like me from the flight simulation community. Our intention is to ensure that the money raised from this event funds future conferences around the U.S., so we can keep growing the industry we all love.

It is, and has always been, our hope that there will be a single flight simulation event that allows North American enthusiasts to connect. We are working hard to ensure that exhibitors and the flight simulation community know about the benefits of FlightSimExpo—as well as our growing list of launch partners—and join us in Las Vegas this summer.

3 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I'm hoping they organize helicopter riders over Hoover Dam, there is a surprising amount of other activity that goes on in Vegas beyond the shows, dance clubs, gambling ... not to mention the airport is view-able from just about any hotel.

Thanks for the suggestion! We have a few names of companies we'd like to work with. Hoping that if we can explain we'll have a few hundred aviation enthusiasts in the area for a few days, a small discount on their regular rates might be available for attendees. Definitely something we plan to explore closer to the event.

6 hours ago, FlightSimExpo said:

Thanks for the comments Bill. Here's the answer: we asked the flight simulation developers what they wanted. There was resounding interest and support for Las Vegas. So, the team behind FSExpo tried (in many ways) to communicate that to the event management company that runs FlightSimCon, but interests weren't aligned. In order to match the wishes of developers and the community, we needed to start our own event.

To my knowledge, FlightSimCon hasn't published information about which, if any, developers are on board for that event. But, you can see the folks who are behind FSExpo on our website: Orbx, Aerosoft, Boston Virtual ARTCC, FlyTampa, FSFX Packages, FSElite, GoFlight, HiFi Simulations, iBlueYonder, Infinite-Flight, Javiator, Jetline Systems, Just Flight, Mindstar Aviation, PilotEdge, PILOT'S, Prepar3D, POSCON, Quality Wings, TFDi Design, VATSIM and VATUSA, VATSTAR, and X-Plane. Of course, there's actually several more that are waiting in the wings for when we officially open up registrations.

The fact is FSExpo is run 100% by folks like me from the flight simulation community. Our intention is to ensure that the money raised from this event funds future conferences around the U.S., so we can keep growing the industry we all love.

It is, and has always been, our hope that there will be a single flight simulation event that allows North American enthusiasts to connect. We are working hard to ensure that exhibitors and the flight simulation community know about the benefits of FlightSimExpo—as well as our growing list of launch partners—and join us in Las Vegas this summer.

Thank you Mr. F.ightSimExpo1 (Evan? ;)) Anyway, that is exactly the answer I was hoping to get from someone....anyone. Thanks for taking the time.  Now I have to sweet talk my wife into changing my first class tickets to Dallas to Vegas. ;(

Bill Alderson

13 hours ago, Bill Alderson said:

Thank you Mr. F.ightSimExpo1 (Evan? ;)) Anyway, that is exactly the answer I was hoping to get from someone....anyone. Thanks for taking the time.  Now I have to sweet talk my wife into changing my first class tickets to Dallas to Vegas. ;(

Bill Alderson

Evan indeed! :) Although a few of our team members (including Phil and Tom) have access to this account too.

Feel free to drop me an email or phone call any time you'd like to chat: evan@flightsimexpo.com.

Whew, I'm pleased to see Evan and the BVATC crew are behind this. 

Dear Bill,

Your question triggered a much wider response than you might have anticipated.  A few weeks ago, I asked FSElite to investigate this very question, and we’ve been silent on the matter while the article (https://fselite.net/originals/fselite-original-two-north-america-flight-sim-shows-2018/)

was being prepared. 

I want to thank Calum from FSElite for his hard work, I know this was not an easy task.  But we do believe there’s more to the story than was described in the article.  As Co-Founder of FlightSimCon, and the original designer of this whole damn thing, I’d to share a point of view that may not have across in Calum’s writings.  I’m just going to call it as I see it and let the public decide.

FSElite describes the developers meeting held at a local pub, where John from Orbix mentioned that Vegas would be a good place for next year’s event.  Others became excited about that idea, and the hotel was abuzz with it that evening.  We believe that to be true.  However, our point of view is the Vegas idea should have been brought to the table with all stakeholders and discussed.  That never occurred. 

Instead it appears that Evan and Phil became emboldened by financial commitments from Orbx and others, and decided they would form a new competing event.   In the process they would take the top sponsors of FlightSimCon with them.  This happened relatively quickly.  Emails found in Evan and Phil’s FlightSimCon email archives confirm they were discussing forming a new LLC mere days after the closing of the 2017 event.   While it’s their right to form a new event, we also believe these actions smack of poaching.  We’re disappointed that the FSElite article failed to discuss this.

So, what is poaching? 

You can look it up if you like.  But in a business sense if a partner leaves to start a new competing company, that’s fine.  But if they also take the best clients of their previous firm with them, that’s poaching.  And it’s highly unethical.  Our view is that Evan and Phil used their position at FlightSimCon to redirect opportunities and resources for themselves that ethically should have been brought forth and evaluated fully first for FlightSimCon. 

As referenced in the FSElite article, a follow up email from John from Orbx says they would be withdrawing their support if the event were not moved to Vegas.   While we had some trepidation about Vegas, at no point was Vegas ever removed from consideration.  It was being considered along with Los Angeles, Dallas, Denver, NYC and others.   I personally had many conversations with participants at last year’s event that new markets were being explored.  Anyone I had talked with knew the event would go on the road for 2018.   

Nicole responded to John’s email on Aug 3 saying that “We’re still exploring all fantastic options and we’ll keep in touch in the coming weeks”.  Evan and Phil were copied on this email.    Still, Evan and Phil claim to have no reason to believe that moving the event would happen.   But neither did they investigate or participate in a dialog about it either.  It seems at this point they had already decided they would go on their own.      

The FSElite article quotes from the August 29 email sent to Nicole suggesting Evan and Phil were ready to take a greater role in managing the event.   FSElite seems to view this as relatively benign.  We see it differently.  We see it as a takeover bid of an asset they had no rights to.

From our point of view, Evan and Phil didn’t ask for control of FlightSimCon, they demanded it.  They did nothing less than attempt to dismiss Nicole from the very event she founded, wholly owned, and built from nothing.   They acted as if their contributions to the event now entitled them to serve as its directors. 

We don’t dispute the leadership and support provided from the BVA team was fantastic.  But they did so first as enthusiastic volunteers, and then with a written agreement.   That makes this a business relationship - with all the ethics and responsibilities that go along with it.      

Some may say it’s good to have BVA taking the lead on FSExpo.  But surveys received from participants at FlightSimCon might suggest otherwise.  Some responses described too much BVA presence at past events.  They would have liked to have seen other communities represented more.   As an event now fully operated by BVA, opportunities for community diversity seems daunting at FSExpo.   Some might say “haven’t we all had enough BVA already?”   

Nicole and her company Glander Associates Event Management, has more than 25 years of event management experience - including working in Vegas.  She and her team have handled corporate events there spanning ten days at multiple locations.  To suggest an event company with more experience in Vegas was needed is absurd. 

The fact is, Vegas is a difficult environment.  While conference space itself is often cheap or free, they get you everywhere else.  Attendees will likely end up paying a premium for food, beverages, rooms, transportation, entertainment, and of course the constant allure of gambling and strippers.  Attendee’s at FSExpo may want to budget $1000 before they’ve even gotten off the plane.  While that may be OK for the single millennials represented by the BVA team, for a budget conscious family or individual, Vegas may be a poor choice. 

In fact, I’ll go so far as to question why they wanted to move the event there in the first place.  Is it really because that’s the strongest market?  Stronger than any other metro area?  Or is it because they wanted to party.  Not that there’s anything fundamentally wrong with that, and certainly everyone is entitled to a good party.   But to take over the event and eject Nicole because of it?  The person that started this whole freight train with nothing but guts, heart, and verve?   Nicole only wanted to create a really cool event for the community, and she took heavy losses to do so.  But then as the event starts to turn a profit, it’s poached away?  That’s disgraceful.  No, that’s disgusting. 

We believe the story to be that (1) it was clear the event needed to move and that was communicated, (2) Vegas was never removed from consideration, (3) Orbx was holding the event hostage by insisting on Vegas, (4) Nicole announced a location would be determined soon, but (5) Evan, Phil had already made other plans. 

In the end, they didn’t want a discussion about where the event would be held.  They wanted control. They had already decided.   It’s our point of view that Evan and Phil directed valuable business contacts and opportunities to themselves.  They used their position at FlightSimCon to undermine FlightSimCon.  In any business environment, that would clearly be considered poaching. 

Plus, it’s just plain wrong.  Some might say “its just business”.  Really?  Is that how you conduct your business?     

So yes, we believe a power - - and probably - - profit grab.

For us, we believe doing the right things with good people leads to positive outcomes.  Nicole didn’t put a non-compete in her contract based on that very belief.   She trusted these people.  She believed that people are essentially good and have ethical intentions at heart.  An ethical person might have honored the traditional 1 year non-compete found in these sorts of agreements whether it was in the contract or not.   For years we believed that Evan and Phil were friends and trusted allies.  It now appears that trust was misplaced.

FlightSimCon is moving forward with the event in Dallas on June 23 & 24, 2018.  We’ll welcome any exhibitors, speakers, attendee’s, communities and participants that want to join in.  We’re excited to work with the DFW ARTCC community to deliver a fantastic experience.  With a great location on deck, we’re building a slate of simpit builders, speakers, educators, and exhibitors designed to appeal to the family oriented and STEM focused market.   

For those ready for something different, we invite you visit us in Dallas.  You’ll find a new and refreshing lineup suitable for enthusiasts and pilots of all ages everywhere.

Warm regards,

Chuck.

FlightSimCon Co-Founder

1 hour ago, Flight SimCon said:

 

I've gone to Vegas quarterly every year since 2007 and I've never once felt the allure of strippers or gambling. I go on peak & off peak for 3-4 days at a time (typically over holiday weekends) and with airfare I've never spent more than $500 in hotel, airfare and "entertainment" while I'm there.

I'm well aware that Vegas can be an expensive place but it doesn't have to be, nor does it make sense to assume that there's only two types of entertainment in the city. Ironically, a lot of the Vegas experiences that are available can cost considerably more than either of these two vices.

and there are the Vegas Golden Knights which is a real popular venue on the strip

40 minutes ago, softreset said:

I've gone to Vegas quarterly every year since 2007 and I've never once felt the allure of strippers or gambling. I go on peak & off peak for 3-4 days at a time (typically over holiday weekends) and with airfare I've never spent more than $500 in hotel, airfare and "entertainment" while I'm there.

I'm well aware that Vegas can be an expensive place but it doesn't have to be, nor does it make sense to assume that there's only two types of entertainment in the city. Ironically, a lot of the Vegas experiences that are available can cost considerably more than either of these two vices.

I also love the idea of how inexpensive it is, especially how I plan to attend from the east coast. The problem is age, it just seems like an event that leans towards an older audience(partially b/c of location). Being 19, I can't even get a room simply b/c there is a casino/bar in the hotel, and staying at any other place just seems inconvenient.

As softrest says, Las Vegas is one of the least expensive metro markets in the United States, unless you go there with the intention of spending lots of money. Of all the cities I can fly to from my local airport non-stop, Las Vegas is the least expensive by far.

An airport shuttle running from baggage claim 7 to the strip hotels is only $7 one way, a fraction of the cost of a taxi. Even Uber and Lyft save $10-$15 over taking a taxi. Restaurants and buffets compete aggressively with each other in Las Vegas. There are plenty of upscale, expensive restaurants in Las Vegas, but there are many many more economical ways to get very nice meals. The same with alcoholic beverages... way too many "specials" to even mention. To say someone must budget $1000 before getting off the plane is an overstatement, unless they are going specifically to spend that much money.

I also have to question the use of "poaching" in Chuck's statement above. In the financial business world, where protection of client lists is vitally important, there are strict ethical rules for credentialed professionals on the use of client lists, especially when they leave a firm. If the individual is limited by a legal agreement or can't replicate the client list by using public domain information, then it is considered "poaching" and if reported, may result in severe financial penalties, as well as revocation of financial credentials. My understanding from the FSElite article is that Evan and Phil had a contract that expired immediate following the 2017 event with no restriction on competing in the same type of business.The emails by Evan and Phil cited by Chuck above occurred after the contracts expired. There are a limited number of FS vendors and it would be quite easy to develop a FlightSimCon vendor list by simply going to the internet and looking up FS vendors. It may even be possible to create a more extensive list than FlightSimCon had using this method. So how exactly is this considered "poaching?" Is it the right thing to do? That depends on many factors, especially if Even and Phil are considered friends, but none of the known ethical business definitions consider it poaching. I'm sorry Nicole trusted these contract employees, but perhaps that is a lesson learned the hard way.

I wish Chuck & Nicole success in Dallas, but it appears to be an upstream swim with two organizers working in the same arena with such a limited audience. Perhaps it would be better to spread the conferences out a bit and make them semi-annual - one in the summer and one in the winter. Maybe agree not to hurt each other by saturating the conference space with conferences only weeks apart.

Sorry to see this conflict of interests but I agree that Vegas is by far the cheapest location and a location most likely to draw more attendance.  My companies sales group travels the US for trade shows and Vegas draws the most potential customers by far.  In fact, it’s so popular a location our sales group sets up twice per year in Vegas.

Ethics should NOT be a factor on location decision, it should be what best serves the FS community and its vendors.  It’s none of anyone’s business what others elect to do in Vegas beyond attendance.  

A flight and nice room in a casino cost me $110 for flight and $113 per night and $28/day for vehicle.  The prior conference location was $600 flight, $179 discount room rate per night and no car rental.  

Vegas is very family/kid friendly these days.

I hope you can work this out in the future.

cheers Rob.

I don't see why we can't have two conventions, particularly if they are in different parts of the country.  Why not an east coast convention?  And a west coast convention?

There are plenty of locations along the east coast, like Lancaster PA or Baltimore MD.  In fact, an ideal eastern location might be at or near the Air and Space Museum at Dulles International Airport.  Or the U.S. Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.

Similarly, there are many good locations in the West.  Each of these is likely to attract different groups of simmers.

Instead of scheduling them apart, it would be better to schedule them a week apart.  That way exhibitors pack up their stuff and head across the country.  This would be particularly  nice for exhibitors from outside the U.S.

Sorry, Dallas seems to be a Hail Mary for the now-branded FlightSimCon group.  Been there a couple of times, and it's not all that!  Dallas just doesn't make sense to me.   I've also been to Las Vegas six times... and it is all that!  And it is both adult and family friendly!

It's too bad the two sides could not come to an agreement on a single blockbuster event.   It's very possible that the two events do water each other down -- that only hurts the community.    But I feel that Las Vegas is spot on for FlightSimExpo and look forward to that event along with seeing at the event the many individuals that I've become friends with from the 4 (of the 5) FlightSimCons I attended in the Hartford area.

The one thing that Hartford lacked was the "events around the event" (i.e. a wide range of off-hours activities for friends and family that come far and wide).   Las  Vegas is not only cheaper, it's incredibly easy for ANYONE to find off-hours things to do... no matter what your interests are.   And... I'll stay longer!

This isn't about a brand.  And it's most definitely not about Glander.   It's about the people that make the flight sim community what it is for each other and our show of appreciation for those willing to take a chance to make these events happen for us.   Attend both if you can, or choose the one that makes the most sense for you.

For me... I wish the FlightSimCon team luck and success in Dallas, and wherever they go from there.  But, for 2018, I look forward to seeing my friends in Vegas!